RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 147,677
Posts: 5,840,039
Members: 26,171
Currently online: 388
Newest member: SGCombs

TrekToday headlines

Perth Mint Voyager Coins
By: T'Bonz on Sep 1

Face Off To Feature Trek Makeup
By: T'Bonz on Sep 1

Pegg Omaze Video Features Outtakes
By: T'Bonz on Sep 1

Vulcan Ale – The Genesis Effect
By: T'Bonz on Aug 31

Shatner Writing Book About Friendship With Nimoy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 31

Nimoy Documentary ON COPD In Progress
By: T'Bonz on Aug 31

Three New Star Trek Beyond Set Shots
By: T'Bonz on Aug 31

Retro Review: Elogium
By: Michelle Erica Green on Aug 28

Trek Swype Keyboard
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Meaney In Talks For McGuinness Role
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old May 28 2014, 06:23 PM   #751
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Runetouch wrote: View Post
Posting from an IPad right now, so please forgive me if my grammar is a bit weird in this post.

Really, just because JJ Trek earns so much money doesnt mean that these movies are brilliant. Transformers earns much more, and all those movies are terrible. And JJ Trek still earns, more or less, the amount of money that the original Trek movies(adjusted for inflation) earned(yes, Into Darkness may be the top grosser, but if these movies have got so many new fans in as people like to state, then, it should earn a lot more, and not slightly more. It earned less then the 2009 movie in the US, and about the same in the UK. Now that's hardly showing an increase in popularity for the franchise, in fact it only shows that the original fan base is getting pissed off, for the UK and the US are the two countries where Star Trek has always been popular)
The original fan base is getting old, too. Nothing is worse than a pissed-off old person. "Stay away from my Star Trek, you young whipper-snappers!" Abrams was a shot of Khan's blood to the franchise.

Also, as someone said in some Trek movie, "People can be very frightened of change."
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 06:23 PM   #752
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Runetouch wrote: View Post

Really, just because JJ Trek earns so much money doesnt mean that these movies are brilliant. Transformers earns much more, and all those movies are terrible. And JJ Trek still earns, more or less, the amount of money that the original Trek movies(adjusted for inflation) earned(yes, Into Darkness may be the top grosser, but if these movies have got so many new fans in as people like to state, then, it should earn a lot more, and not slightly more. It earned less then the 2009 movie in the US, and about the same in the UK. Now that's hardly showing an increase in popularity for the franchise, in fact it only shows that the original fan base is getting pissed off, for the UK and the US are the two countries where Star Trek has always been popular)
Star Trek Into Darkness ranks very well among audiences. Many sites show that the film was pretty well liked. Even 75% of the people that voted at this site ranked it as a 'B-' or better.

TWOK earned less than TMP, does that make TMP the better movie? Into Darkness was sandwiched between Iron Man 3 and The Fast and Furious 6, it had far more in the way of direct competition around it than Star Trek (2009) did.

Sometimes things just don't line up for a film to be a mega box office hit. It is what it is.
__________________
"Just give me two seconds, alright, you mad bastard!" - Montgomery Scott, Star Trek Into Darkness
BillJ is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 06:40 PM   #753
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

BillJ wrote: View Post
TWOK earned less than TMP, does that make TMP the better movie?
See, that's one of the examples why I don't care. TMP and TWOK are very different kind of films, and I like them both equally. I'm a fan, not a producer.
__________________
A movie aiming low should not be praised for hitting that target.
JarodRussell is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 07:04 PM   #754
LOKAI of CHERON
Commodore
 
LOKAI of CHERON's Avatar
 
Location: Post-apocalyptic ruins of my once mighty Homeworld.
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Runetouch wrote: View Post
Posting from an IPad right now, so please forgive me if my grammar is a bit weird in this post.
Off topic briefly...

Honestly, I stopped caring about my spelling/grammar here a long time ago! I often post from my iPad/iPhone - and have made some whopping mistakes.

Even when I'm at the PC, I usually type really quickly - continuing a litany of errors! I sometimes miss key words out altogether. Screw it, I'm not at work, so constructing my posts to the absolute best of my ability is just not very important frankly - I'm here for fun.

If another poster wants to "correct" you - just ignore it. If it gives them a "rush of superiority", so be it.
__________________
YOU MONOTONE HUMANS ARE ALL ALIKE... FIRST YOU CONDEMN, THEN ATTACK.
LOKAI of CHERON is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 07:23 PM   #755
Dennis
The Man
 
Dennis's Avatar
 
Location: Under the Great Blue Sky
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Runetouch wrote: View Post
And JJ Trek still earns, more or less, the amount of money that the original Trek movies(adjusted for inflation) earned.
No.
__________________
Is there anybody alive out there?
Dennis is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 08:22 PM   #756
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Dennis wrote: View Post
Runetouch wrote: View Post
And JJ Trek still earns, more or less, the amount of money that the original Trek movies(adjusted for inflation) earned.
No.
I'm curious: does the "adjusted for inflation" amount for a thirty-year old film mean anything to anyone that currently works at a studio? Or is it simply an inaccurate measuring of dick length among fans?
__________________
"Just give me two seconds, alright, you mad bastard!" - Montgomery Scott, Star Trek Into Darkness
BillJ is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 08:34 PM   #757
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
Runetouch wrote: View Post
And JJ Trek still earns, more or less, the amount of money that the original Trek movies(adjusted for inflation) earned.
No.
I'm curious: does the "adjusted for inflation" amount for a thirty-year old film mean anything to anyone that currently works at a studio? Or is it simply an inaccurate measuring of dick length among fans?
I remember the days where 50 cents bought 5 packs of baseball cards, a Bubs Daddy, a comic book, two packages of sweet tarts, and a root beer. And there was still enough left over for a movie and popcorn, and the bus ride home!

Given all the other outlets for movies these days besides the box office, and the different types and amounts of competition for entertainment dollars, I doubt the comparisons mean much to bean counters at the studios. In other words, controlling for inflation means nothing unless you're also controlling for the context in which the box office was taken, and I'm not too sure what that accomplishes that matters in the end.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 08:44 PM   #758
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
Runetouch wrote: View Post
And JJ Trek still earns, more or less, the amount of money that the original Trek movies(adjusted for inflation) earned.
No.
I'm curious: does the "adjusted for inflation" amount for a thirty-year old film mean anything to anyone that currently works at a studio? Or is it simply an inaccurate measuring of dick length among fans?
When you properly adjust for inflation, you basically compare the amount of tickets sold. I'd say that's one of the more accurate dick length measurement techniques.
__________________
A movie aiming low should not be praised for hitting that target.
JarodRussell is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 08:58 PM   #759
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
When you properly adjust for inflation, you basically compare the amount of tickets sold. I'd say that's one of the more accurate dick length measurement techniques.
But thirty-years ago the market was entirely different. Home video was still in its infancy, movies took years to make it to TV and no one could download an HD version of the film in 30 minutes.

There are many more way to access the material now.

It's like comparing Joe Montana vs. Tom Brady. The latter may have superior numbers but the rules between the two era's play a big part.
__________________
"Just give me two seconds, alright, you mad bastard!" - Montgomery Scott, Star Trek Into Darkness
BillJ is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 09:09 PM   #760
Brutal Strudel
Rear Admiral
 
Brutal Strudel's Avatar
 
Location: Here, frozen between time and place, not even the brightest lights escape...
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
TWOK earned less than TMP, does that make TMP the better movie?
See, that's one of the examples why I don't care. TMP and TWOK are very different kind of films, and I like them both equally. I'm a fan, not a producer.
For me, TMP is simply a better movie--not by much (TWoK is just behind it my fanboy esteem, with the two Abrams film lagging further behind in the 3 and 4 slots, before TSfS and FC) (The rest of them suck, imao) but better, But hat's a matter of taste and, though we will argue it, it probably won't be changed.
__________________
Once every lifetime, we're swallowed by the whale.
Brutal Strudel is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 09:41 PM   #761
BigJake
Vice Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

BillJ wrote:
I'm curious: does the "adjusted for inflation" amount for a thirty-year old film mean anything to anyone
Adjusting for inflation is how you make the comparison of revenue at different times actually meaningful. On account of the value of a dollar is not the same as prices inflate over time.

Couldn't say for sure but I'm reasonably confident people working for a studio would probably grasp that principle. I'm less sure why you have a problem with it other than its being polemically inconvenient for you in some way or other that is unclear to me.
__________________
"Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, Jake's had the most... Haterade."
BigJake is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 10:14 PM   #762
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

BigJake wrote: View Post
Adjusting for inflation is how you make the comparison of revenue at different times actually meaningful. On account of the value of a dollar is not the same as prices inflate over time.
But, once again, the business is very different than it was thirty years ago. Making one on one comparisons practically meaningless.

I don't know about you? But I've got thirty premium movie channels (not counting Pay-Per-View) where new movies go less than a year after theatrical release. In 1984, we had two, HBO and The Movie Channel and it took movies three to four years to make it to them. I could never go to the theater again and never run out of new movies to watch.
__________________
"Just give me two seconds, alright, you mad bastard!" - Montgomery Scott, Star Trek Into Darkness
BillJ is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 10:31 PM   #763
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

BigJake wrote: View Post
The Stig wrote: View Post
Some details are omitted and are left for us to fill in.
"Some" details aren't. The most basic details driving the action are. When it's left up to the audience to fill in what the villain's basic plan is supposed to be, you're right, some people are less bothered by that than others. But the issue of coherency doesn't change at all.

If the movie is providing a basic, coherent narrative, most people leaving the theatre will be able to give you the same basic answer to that most basic of questions without referring to deleted scenes and their own personal theories. This simply cannot be done with the plot of STID. Trying to play that off as cool arthouse ambiguity is all well and good, but you'll have to forgive me if it doesn't impress me.

The quote applies equally well to story questions as it does to visual ones
No.
I have yet to have ONE (let alone several) conversations with people who saw STiD and disagreed about the plot, never mind not understanding it (they understood it just fine).

And to a larger point (addressing visual and written fiction) raised in the Meyer quotation--since when do we as the viewers (or readers) have to be spoonfed every element of a plot or explanation? It is a lazy and, frankly, absurd expectation, not to mention somewhat insulting.

The first Mission Impossible movie, back in 96, IIRC, was criticized by some people as too complicated to follow. Same thing applied to Syriana about a decade later (I'm sure there are many more examples, but I'm familiar with these two as I like each film). Yes, they were more complex than typical movie stories. And they required viewers to fill in some blanks on their own. THAT'S what I enjoy most about them (The Usual Suspects also comes to mind). Also, they weren't really all that difficult to follow.

People are free to dislike any and all of the films above. They're even free to complain that the plots of each have missing bits that make it "difficult for them to follow". But they are not entitled to have every detail spoonfed to them simply because they are either unwilling on unable to do any of the "filling in of the blanks" themselves. I'd actually prefer if far FEWER films served up everything in a nice tidy little package. But maybe that's just me.
Ovation is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 10:46 PM   #764
BigJake
Vice Admiral
 
BigJake's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

BillJ wrote: View Post
But, once again, the business is very different than it was thirty years ago. Making one on one comparisons practically meaningless.
Yeah, nice try, but there's nothing interesting to be said about those changes that would let you plausibly get away with declaring basic math like adjustments for inflation irrelevant*. Sorry.

Also odd that I never see you bring that up when people are comparing NuTrek to OldTrek box office as proof of Abrams' allegedly superior mojo. Of course one wouldn't want to suggest that these comparisons suddenly become "meaningless" when the data isn't being skewed to present the picture you want; that would be crazy talk.

* Actually the changes in the business are a genuinely interesting subject about which there's plenty to be said. But not as part of a polemical pissing contest.

Ovation wrote:
I have yet to have ONE (let alone several) conversations with people who saw STiD and disagreed about the plot
Since I have yet to see even its superfans here come up with a single coherent rendition of what Marcus' and Khans' plans are supposed to be, I frankly don't believe you.

I've had many conversations with people who don't care about the plot as presented on screen (either because they can build a personally satisfying fan theory, or because plot and story just isn't that important to them), which is perfectly fair but not the same thing.

since when do we as the viewers (or readers) have to be spoonfed every element of a plot or explanation?
Strawman. When you're ready to talk about what I actually said, by all means do so.
__________________
"Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, Jake's had the most... Haterade."

Last edited by BigJake; May 28 2014 at 10:57 PM.
BigJake is offline  
Old May 28 2014, 10:58 PM   #765
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: 全tar Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

BigJake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
But, once again, the business is very different than it was thirty years ago. Making one on one comparisons practically meaningless.
Yeah, nice try, but there's nothing interesting to be said about those changes that would let you plausibly get away with declaring basic math like adjustments for inflation irrelevant*. Sorry.

Also odd that I never see you bring that up when people are comparing NuTrek to OldTrek box office as proof of Abrams' allegedly superior mojo. Of course one wouldn't want to suggest that these comparisons suddenly become "meaningless" when the data isn't being skewed to present the picture you want; that would be crazy talk.

* Actually the changes in the business are a genuinely interesting subject about which there's plenty to be said. But not as part of a polemical pissing contest.
I don't think anyone is saying the comparisons are totally meaningless, just that without context, they're not very useful. There's a lot more competition for the entertainment dollar out there today, and a lot more ways for a movie to make money outside of the box office than there was even ten years ago, let alone over thirty.

SW adjusted domestic box office gross is over $1.4 billion (behind only "Gone with the Wind" at $1.6 billion). "The Empire Strikes Back" is the number two SW movie at $781 million, just over half SW when controlling for inflation. Does that really say something? Only that both movies were wildly successful, and one was truly a phenomenon.

Controlling for inflation shows that Abrams's Trek movies actually bring in more box office receipts today with more and other competition than Trek movies brought in in the days when multiplexes and pay-per-view were just gleams in a developer's and cable company's eyes.

If there were fewer things out there barking for the movie-goer's dollar, it's possible (pure speculation, but I'd say logically possible) that Trek and Spiderman, and Iron Man, and so on would do even better at that one place we call the box office. A lot of folks saw SW in the theater dozens of times because that was going to be their only chance to see the movie for God knew how long. By comparison, how many people went to STID, enjoyed it a lot, so they saw it a couple more times in the theater, then decided they wait for the DVD to watch it more.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.