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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 1 2014, 07:30 PM   #91
BillJ
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

drt wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Tallguy wrote: View Post
Do any appreciable number of people under 30 watch TOS anymore? Serious question.
My kids watch it with me. But independently? My daughter is the only one I know of, she's 20.
My 5 and 7 year olds watch it with me.

We watched "The Ultimate Computer" last night, my 7-year old daughter commented as they finished installing the M-5: "I think that computer is going to be a bad idea..."
Very cute. Kids are awesome.

When I got the season two remastered set, I was watching "The Doomsday Machine" with the new effects. My daughter storms into the room with the VHS copy I had, points to the back of the box and says "that's the Doomsday Machine!"
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Old May 1 2014, 07:35 PM   #92
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

BillJ wrote: View Post
drt wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

My kids watch it with me. But independently? My daughter is the only one I know of, she's 20.
My 5 and 7 year olds watch it with me.

We watched "The Ultimate Computer" last night, my 7-year old daughter commented as they finished installing the M-5: "I think that computer is going to be a bad idea..."
Very cute. Kids are awesome.

When I got the season two remastered set, I was watching "The Doomsday Machine" with the new effects. My daughter storms into the room with the VHS copy I had, points to the back of the box and says "that's the Doomsday Machine!"
That's great.
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Old May 1 2014, 07:58 PM   #93
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Of course the only reason Abrams is relevant to this conversation is because his movies were successful (even Into Darkness). If the first one had failed it really would have been the nail in the coffin for TOS and probably all of Trek with it.
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Old May 1 2014, 08:31 PM   #94
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Tallguy wrote: View Post
Of course the only reason Abrams is relevant to this conversation is because his movies were successful (even Into Darkness). If the first one had failed it really would have been the nail in the coffin for TOS and probably all of Trek with it.
We'd have seen it again, but it would've gotten the "Starsky & Hutch" treatment. With Will Ferrell and Jack Black as Kirk and Spock.
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Old May 1 2014, 08:45 PM   #95
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Tallguy wrote: View Post
Of course the only reason Abrams is relevant to this conversation is because his movies were successful (even Into Darkness). If the first one had failed it really would have been the nail in the coffin for TOS and probably all of Trek with it.
We'd have seen it again, but it would've gotten the "Starsky & Hutch" treatment. With Will Ferrell and Jack Black as Kirk and Spock.
Or maybe it would have been given to someone who actually has a little talent.
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Old May 1 2014, 08:59 PM   #96
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Vandervecken wrote: View Post
Or maybe it would have been given to someone who actually has a little talent.
1) So if JJ Trek had failed it would have proven Abrams had no talent. Since it has succeeded it proves that Abrams has no talent…

2) If JJ Trek had gone down in flames that would have been the end of Star Trek for a long long loooong time. Do you think anyone is looking at The Lone Ranger right now and thinking “They just didn’t do it right, let's try again”?
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Old May 1 2014, 09:12 PM   #97
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Tallguy wrote: View Post
Vandervecken wrote: View Post
Or maybe it would have been given to someone who actually has a little talent.
1) So if JJ Trek had failed it would have proven Abrams had no talent. Since it has succeeded it proves that Abrams has no talent…

2) If JJ Trek had gone down in flames that would have been the end of Star Trek for a long long loooong time. Do you think anyone is looking at The Lone Ranger right now and thinking “They just didn’t do it right, let's try again”?
No, neither financial success nor failure is what lets me know, at least, that Abrams is a no-talent hack. it's because fauxTrek is nothing but clunky, predictable, dumbed-down, heartless slam-bang actioners (and bad slam-bang actioners at that) that we know Abrams has no talent.

And I don't believe at all that if they had failed financially that that would have been the end of the Star Trek franchise. That's your belief. It's because they've succeeded financially that the franchise has ended--ie, nothing but fauxTrek from here on out.

The Lone Ranger is dated and old. Its position in pop culture is not even remotely analogous to the cultural depth that Star Trek occupies. Were there any Lone Ranger series after the original one, between 1957 and the movie in 2013?

Pieces of garbage sometimes do well financially. Nothing new about that phenomenon.
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Old May 1 2014, 10:08 PM   #98
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

A lot of action films are predictable, the James Bond films followed more or less the exact same formula for deacdes and yet we kept going to see them.
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Old May 1 2014, 11:26 PM   #99
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Warped9 wrote: View Post

How many forty year old television series do you know that still get this kind of attention? Yes, there are a handful of other shows that are remembered and even enjoy a small cult following, but nothing to seriously rival TOS.
Possibly I Love Lucy? Which still easy to find on cable, even though it's in black-and-white, and generates tons of mass-market merchandise aimed at general audiences: calendars, Hallmark ornaments, etc.

Clearly, Desilu is the secret ingredient to TV longevity!
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Old May 1 2014, 11:57 PM   #100
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Tallguy wrote: View Post
1) So if JJ Trek had failed it would have proven Abrams had no talent. Since it has succeeded it proves that Abrams has no talent…
Now you get it!

Vandervecken wrote: View Post

No, neither financial success nor failure is what lets me know, at least, that Abrams is a no-talent hack. it's because fauxTrek is nothing but clunky, predictable, dumbed-down, heartless slam-bang actioners (and bad slam-bang actioners at that) that we know Abrams has no talent.

And I don't believe at all that if they had failed financially that that would have been the end of the Star Trek franchise. That's your belief. It's because they've succeeded financially that the franchise has ended--ie, nothing but fauxTrek from here on out.
Whether you personally like the films or not, they not only succeeded financially but were generally liked by audiences and critics alike. I'm not a fan of Star Trek: First Contact, but saying the makers have no talent would just show how disconnected from reality I was. They made a movie that people and critics generally enjoy, which requires some talent whether you like it or not. You didn't like the movie? Great. Very few films are universally loved.

As far as whether or not Trek was at its end if the 2009 film was a failure? I believe it would have been the end of the road for a very, very long for serious films/TV. CBS/Paramount weren't exactly dying to spend money on Trek before Abrams came along and that was after a meager $70 million dollar film fell flat on its face. I believe a $150 million dollar plus marketing collapse would've been the end for a very, very long time.
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Old May 1 2014, 11:57 PM   #101
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Vandervecken wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Tallguy wrote: View Post
Of course the only reason Abrams is relevant to this conversation is because his movies were successful (even Into Darkness). If the first one had failed it really would have been the nail in the coffin for TOS and probably all of Trek with it.
We'd have seen it again, but it would've gotten the "Starsky & Hutch" treatment. With Will Ferrell and Jack Black as Kirk and Spock.
Or maybe it would have been given to someone who actually has a little talent.
^^^
Given the ACTUAL history of Gene Roddenberry's involvement with TOS in particular; I don't think you really want to open that can of worms as there's AMPLE evidence during Star trek's development just how much 'talent' GR had in this regard.

(Gene's vision seemed to be - 'Let me profit off what I can, and bang as many young actresses as I can while Executive Producer - and I'll claim all the ideas contributed by other like Gene L. Coon and claim I was the one who came up with them.")
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Old May 2 2014, 12:52 AM   #102
thumbtack
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Vger23 wrote: View Post
an aging, argumentative and pissy hardcore fanbase
Who's pissy?

Vger23 wrote: View Post
perpetually cranky
Well, okay.
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Old May 2 2014, 04:25 AM   #103
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Vandervecken wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Oh, yippee. So we keep hearing.
So in other words, neither you, nor I, nor anyone else here has the right to say what other people are thinking, since we can't read minds. All we have to go on is sales figure evidence as a basis to judge popularity. QED.
Popularity doesn't equal intrinsic value; if it did, "Avatar" would be a more valuable piece of art/media than Van Gogh's "The Starry Night," which I am sure has not earned over $2Bn gross for the New York Museum of Modern Art.
This is a total cop-out, unfortunately.

The argument (TIRED argument, by the way) about the JJTrek movies simply comes down to personal preference in this case. If you're going to be dismissive of the only "objective" measures for success in the entertainment industry (critical acclaim, box office, and general audience reaction), then there really no argument.

You're basically just being the little kid who puts his hands over his ears and sings so he doesn't need to listen anymore.

Look, it's okay for someone to not like the movies. Trek fans generally hate just about everything. It's nothing new. But, to deny the truth just because it doesn't align with your preferences is delusional.

I don't care what anyone says. Star Trek was a beached whale with an irrelevant and impotent fanbase in the years between Nemesis and 2009. It was a joke that had staled and over-stayed its welcome. Just because a few novels were being written means nothing. There's a lot of $hit novels out there, and I wouldn't call that a base for a thriving franchise.

It's like I said earlier...you can't be "thriving" or even "surviving" without evolution and growth. The JJTrek films certainly represent evolution and the fanbase definitely was infused with new blood and new imaginations.

Regardless of our personal feelings, and regardless of how chagrined we may be that this isn't "our Star Trek" it is absolute denial to say this didn't save the franchise. Trek may not have been dead, but it was slowly bleeding to death.

Not so much now.
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Old May 2 2014, 09:29 AM   #104
Robert Comsol
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Vger23 wrote: View Post
Star Trek was a beached whale with an irrelevant and impotent fanbase in the years between Nemesis and 2009.
Ouch...

Vger23 wrote: View Post
It's like I said earlier...you can't be "thriving" or even "surviving" without evolution and growth. The JJTrek films certainly represent evolution and the fanbase definitely was infused with new blood and new imaginations.
Khan's blood?

Just to add my 0.02 $ here, but the latest product of a franchise mustn't necessary constitute "evolution" and "growth" in a postive sense.

This probably applied for NEM or the Star Wars prequels. I don't think either two added to the popularity of the franchises in a positive manner. In the case of Star Wars it's mostly the imaginative storytelling of the Clone Wars CGI animated series, that undoes some of the prequel damage, IMHO.

Bob
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Old May 2 2014, 10:08 AM   #105
2takesfrakes
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Vger23 wrote: View Post
I don't care what anyone says. Star Trek was a beached whale with an irrelevant and impotent fanbase in the years between Nemesis and 2009.
"... impotent"?!

>>SNORT!!!<<

I am fully functional, sir! Nothing wrong with my equipment!

Otherwise, I'm prepared to accept that Rick Berman had driven STAR TREK into the ground, to keep he and his cronies on the Gravy Train. It's great to see what J.J. Abrams has done with, and for, the franchise ...
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