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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old April 28 2014, 08:41 PM   #61
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
And as KingDaniel said, those Trek tie-ins were being purchased by an infinitesimally tiny percentage of people, of which almost all were probably already Star Trek fans to begin with, and not people who had no idea what Star Trek was and decided to buy a comic book to find out.
Again, companies do not invest in licensed products with no expectation of profit, or if it is understood that the audience for that level of license is small. That is the reason we do not see innumerable items based on Love American Style or Alf, decades after they aired their respective series finale.

Believe whatever the hell you want, but the truth is that the time between the cancellation of ENT to the production of Star Trek '09, Trek was deader than dirt and had been steadily declining in popularity ever since TNG went off the air.
Reiterating, the only part of the franchise that died was anything tied to the Rick Berman pile of series. After hundreds of episodes produced between TNG-ENT, when it all crashed, it was judged as being something removed from TOS tv/movies--not a part of it.

The sideline beauty of it all was that Berman and his crew spent so much time trying to escape the cultural impact / creative influence of TOS, that when his ST crashed, it did not drag TOS into the soldering Berman rubble.
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Old April 28 2014, 08:44 PM   #62
Vandervecken
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Push The Button wrote: View Post

Has there been a resurgence? Well, in my case, I credit three things for renewing my interest as of late: The remastered episodes being available on Netflix, joining TrekBBS, and the JJ films, which I have to credit with bringing the old characters to a new audience that otherwise may not have cared.
This may be just me, but if I'm a typical Trekker, then I have been watching TOS much more in the last 2 years than in, oh, the decade before--in part because the other series have all ended, but also in part, and I am sure of this, because the Abrams films SUCK SO BADLY and shit so much over the heart and soul of what Trek is, that I want to relive the true glories of Trek. I imagine that there are others like me.

So the Abrams films might get some anti-credit as well--by being so bad, and so without any heart, they've induced the older Trek fans to return to the primal font to wash away the bad taste those "Star Trek" movies left.
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Old April 29 2014, 03:54 AM   #63
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Vandervecken wrote: View Post
So the Abrams films might get some anti-credit as well--by being so bad, and so without any heart, they've induced the older Trek fans to return to the primal font to wash away the bad taste those "Star Trek" movies left.
What's funny about your quote is that I feel similar about the Michael Bay Transformers movies. Aside from being a Trek fan, I'm also a huge G1 Transformers fan. I think that Bay's movies, while hugely successful and profit-making, are soulless piles of shit. However, I will not delude myself into believing that they did not have a huge influence with the general public as far as making Transformers popular again, as several trufans here feel about the influence of Abrams's movies on Trek as a whole. And yes, those shitty movies made me want to start collecting again, not just the older G1 stuff but the fantastic Masterpiece collection Takara is creating. So if making hugely popular movies with no soul whatsoever to induce me to buy merchandise that has nothing to do with the films was their master plan, then they've succeeded admirably. And you know what? I'm fine with that. I hate those movies, but I thank Michael Bay for making them.

This may be just me, but if I'm a typical Trekker, then I have been watching TOS much more in the last 2 years than in, oh, the decade before--in part because the other series have all ended, but also in part, and I am sure of this, because the Abrams films SUCK SO BADLY and shit so much over the heart and soul of what Trek is, that I want to relive the true glories of Trek. I imagine that there are others like me.
Other than a few die-hards that post at the TrekBBS, I doubt anyone else feels like you do. Mainly because what you personally feel that "the heart and soul of Trek is" is going to be different with everyone.
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Old April 29 2014, 04:34 AM   #64
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post

Yeah. DVD/BluRay sales. That, combined with the ticket sales, outweight piddly mechandise sales by quite a significant margin.
Otherwise, no.
Toy sales are miniscule compared to ticket, home video and broadcast revenue.

I understand how you feel from an emotional standpoint. You dislike the Abrams films and don't want them to receive any credit for an increased interest in TOS. But the Abrams films have increased TOS profile among the general public. Even if I hated the films, it would be impossible for me not to see that. Even if I hated the Abrams films, I'd still be thankful for the increased exposure the films give TOS. Like it or not, eventually our little cadre of hard core fans who were around early in the life of the franchise will die out. Projects like the Abrams films will keep people checking out TOS after we depart this world.

For that, I am thankful.
This is it right here. The fact of the matter is, just like with a business or a sports franchise...if an entertainment franchise isn't growing and evolving, it is stagnating and dying.

Like or hate the new movies, to deny that the Star Trek franchise was a joke of a beached whale with an aging, argumentative and pissy hardcore fanbase is to deny reality. The failure of Insurrection and Nemesis to generate any buzz or excitement, and the bland stale performance of ENT on television left the once-proud franchise a practical laughing stock.

With the JJTrek movies success, there was a buzz again. And, more importantly, Trek was made relevant to a new and younger generation of fans. To me, that is the DEFINITION of saving the franchise. Because, to continue down the path it was going would have meant a slow, lingering death with only the super hardcore fanbase (dwindling, aging, and perpetually cranky) to maintain interest.

I've been a fan for 35 years, and I've never really seen this much interest in TOS by the general public.

I'm somewhat neutral about JJTrek. I neither adore it nor hate it with every fiber of my being. But, I would never be in such denial as to say it did not save and revitalize an ailing, bloated, petrified franchise. Because...well...it absolutely did. And no amount of rationalizing is going to change that fact.
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Old April 29 2014, 06:19 AM   #65
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Vandervecken wrote: View Post
Push The Button wrote: View Post

Has there been a resurgence? Well, in my case, I credit three things for renewing my interest as of late: The remastered episodes being available on Netflix, joining TrekBBS, and the JJ films, which I have to credit with bringing the old characters to a new audience that otherwise may not have cared.
This may be just me, but if I'm a typical Trekker, then I have been watching TOS much more in the last 2 years than in, oh, the decade before--in part because the other series have all ended, but also in part, and I am sure of this, because the Abrams films SUCK SO BADLY and shit so much over the heart and soul of what Trek is, that I want to relive the true glories of Trek. I imagine that there are others like me.

So the Abrams films might get some anti-credit as well--by being so bad, and so without any heart, they've induced the older Trek fans to return to the primal font to wash away the bad taste those "Star Trek" movies left.
You are certainly not only one of a few who feel like this. A lot of people do.
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Old April 29 2014, 07:08 AM   #66
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

And a lot of people DON'T.
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Old April 29 2014, 07:11 AM   #67
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Maurice wrote: View Post
And a lot of people DON'T.
Oh, yippee. So we keep hearing.
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Old April 30 2014, 02:59 AM   #68
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Perhaps only tangential to this thread, I was going over utopias with my (college) students last week, and asked if I should add Star Trek to the list of the examples. One of my students pointed out that the existence of the space hippies indicated not all was well in the Federation, prompting another to shout out "Herbert!"

I didn't expect one "The Way to Eden" reference from a group of kids born after 1990, much less two.
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Old April 30 2014, 03:19 AM   #69
Dukhat
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
And a lot of people DON'T.
Oh, yippee. So we keep hearing.
So in other words, neither you, nor I, nor anyone else here has the right to say what other people are thinking, since we can't read minds. All we have to go on is sales figure evidence as a basis to judge popularity. QED.
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Old April 30 2014, 04:21 AM   #70
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Ok, I'm not reading five pages of this. So if I repeat what others have said, it must be true.

I don't think it's a resurgence of TOS. It's a recedence of everything else. Boil Star Trek to it's most widely recognized aspects and you get Kirk / Spock / Beam me up Scotty.

Star Trek remains a recognized cultural icon. And if Picard / DS9 / Voyager aren't being pushed by a studio then Star Trek means Captain Kirk.
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Old April 30 2014, 05:51 PM   #71
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
The sideline beauty of it all was that Berman and his crew spent so much time trying to escape the cultural impact / creative influence of TOS, that when his ST crashed, it did not drag TOS into the soldering Berman rubble.
Roddenberry needs to share the blame (hell to the naw, most of the blame) for the way the franchise turned out if people believe that the characters and situations were bland and boring, due to his template being set when he created TNG and ran the show; Berman & Braga were just carrying it out. Paramount brass also deserve the blame (and UPN execs also should get their share for how Voyager and Enterprise was.) The thing is, judging by all of the fan art I've seen at devianArt, and the sales of the Star Trek: TNG Blu-Ray DVD's, the Roddenberry/Berman/Braga era's still popular with people, and some people are even comparing it to the JJ movies, with the new movies getting blasted and them wanting the previous universe back.

Tallguy wrote: View Post
Star Trek remains a recognized cultural icon. And if Picard / DS9 / Voyager aren't being pushed by a studio then Star Trek means Captain Kirk.
Never say never; an executive at Paramount and CBS could always decide to do a reboot of the TNG/DS9/Voyager era, with Enterprise thrown in for good measure, on the big screen...
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Old April 30 2014, 06:29 PM   #72
Warped9
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
And a lot of people DON'T.
Oh, yippee. So we keep hearing.
So in other words, neither you, nor I, nor anyone else here has the right to say what other people are thinking, since we can't read minds. All we have to go on is sales figure evidence as a basis to judge popularity. QED.
This cuts two ways. Every time someone says they didn't care for the fucking movies they're jumped on to argue the point.
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Old April 30 2014, 06:36 PM   #73
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Warped9 wrote: View Post

This cuts two ways. Every time someone says they didn't care for the fucking movies they're jumped on to argue the point.
Not caring for the film and arguing that it had no impact on the franchise is two completely different things.
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Old April 30 2014, 07:43 PM   #74
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post

This cuts two ways. Every time someone says they didn't care for the fucking movies they're jumped on to argue the point.
Not caring for the film and arguing that it had no impact on the franchise is two completely different things.
Neither I nor anyone else here said it had no impact. We merely disagree regarding the degree.
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Old April 30 2014, 07:58 PM   #75
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Re: A TOS resurgence?

Do any appreciable number of people under 30 watch TOS anymore? Serious question.
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