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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 22 2014, 02:51 PM   #16
Trek Survivor
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

I don't have to make weird reasoning to enjoy ST:V... I like it just fine already.
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Old April 22 2014, 03:57 PM   #17
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

I could see this being easily put together to make it fit. Shot of the Enterprise from TUC. Kirk laying down to go to sleep in his cabin. Dissolve to Star Trek 5. Play movie out. Just before end credits roll, Spock wakes Kirk up to tell him about the radiation surge. It was all just a weird, impossible dream.

Damned Romulan Ale!
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Old April 22 2014, 07:33 PM   #18
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
bbailey861 wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes, your loyalty to TNG is admirable. Laughable, at times, but admirable.
Hey!!! Watch it ...
((...snicker))
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Old April 22 2014, 08:48 PM   #19
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

I actually think it's a really good (and interesting) idea, making TFF a dream of Kirk's.
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Old April 22 2014, 11:12 PM   #20
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Interesting theory/interpretation.

One thing it doesn't take into account that Klaa is seen at Kirk and McCoy's trial in Star Trek VI.
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Old April 22 2014, 11:40 PM   #21
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

^ Well, to get (excessively) technical, he's not identified by name in ST VI.

And even so, just because Klaa appeared in the "dream" doesn't mean there wasn't a real Klaa. (See "Tommy Westphall")
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Old April 23 2014, 12:29 AM   #22
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Wasn't this theory put forward before ... elsewhere? This is strangely familiar to me.
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Old April 23 2014, 12:59 AM   #23
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

If only this movie weren't so crappy that "it was all a dream" sounds like an improvement....
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Old April 23 2014, 02:52 PM   #24
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Wasn't this theory put forward before ... elsewhere? This is strangely familiar to me.
I'm sure several fans have independently developed this idea. I did something similar myself years ago though I didn't bother posting my thoughts.

Sincerely,

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Old April 23 2014, 04:01 PM   #25
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Wasn't this theory put forward before ... elsewhere? This is strangely familiar to me.
its on imdb Trek V board, I posted it there
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Old April 24 2014, 06:40 PM   #26
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I actually think it's a really good (and interesting) idea, making TFF a dream of Kirk's.
Agree, I think it works as a dream with the Yosemite campfire bookend scenes.
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Old May 9 2014, 07:00 PM   #27
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Amazing. I love this. It's now in my personal canon.

2 small problems though:
1. Does anyone dream in 3rd person omniscient? I don't think so. The scenes Kirk isn't present for need to be explained.
2. Less of a problem, more of an inconsistency: STar Trek is always careful of not showing external shots during dream sequences, fantasies, or Holodeck episodes. This movie would violate that rule of thumb.

But, yeah, this is an amazing theory and I love it.
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Old May 9 2014, 07:37 PM   #28
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

erastus25 wrote: View Post
2 small problems though:
1. Does anyone dream in 3rd person omniscient? I don't think so. The scenes Kirk isn't present for need to be explained.
Oh, I've had plenty of dreams where I was a detached observer watching a scene from outside, or where I was seeing through the eyes of someone other than myself. And it's not uncommon in such dreams to shift from being someone else to being myself, or from being outside a dream character's POV to within it.

Of course, dreams are in no way linear, consistent narratives following a three-act structure. They're stream-of-consciousness weirdness that transform from moment to moment. Like being in a hallway one moment and outdoors the next without noticing the transition, or seeing a lawnmower one moment and finding it to be a model helicopter shortly thereafter, again with no noticeable transition. (Both of which I've actually experienced in a dream.)

I'm reminded of my thoughts on the original Total Recall, which I posted about on my blog a while back. The relevant quote:
The main argument against this position [that the movie is a delusion] is that we see scenes that aren’t from Quaid’s POV, and thus couldn’t be part of a memory-implant illusion. But to me, the key is what Roy Brocksmith’s character tells Quaid in the hotel room: that what he’s experiencing isn’t the programmed vacation package, but a free-form delusion his mind is manufacturing based on that implant. So if he’s suffering a paranoid delusion, then the scenes that take place in Quaid’s absence could represent what his paranoid mind believes is going on behind his back — his wife betraying him, a murderous enemy pursuing him and being given marching orders by the dictator of Mars, etc.
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Old May 9 2014, 09:22 PM   #29
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Christopher wrote: View Post
erastus25 wrote: View Post
2 small problems though:
1. Does anyone dream in 3rd person omniscient? I don't think so. The scenes Kirk isn't present for need to be explained.
Oh, I've had plenty of dreams where I was a detached observer watching a scene from outside, or where I was seeing through the eyes of someone other than myself. And it's not uncommon in such dreams to shift from being someone else to being myself, or from being outside a dream character's POV to within it.
I, too, have a fair number of dreams in which I'm not any kind of participant, not even a watcher, and a few in which the viewpoint was that of a friend. A couple nights ago I had a dream best described as ``watching this bizarre forgotten movie from decades ago''; it, of course, felt perfectly natural at the time.
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Old May 10 2014, 01:56 AM   #30
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Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Overall I think the dream idea is excellent, because the makers of ST V did not take the subject seriously. The "surreal dream" fix is right precisely because the movie is filled with things that are so wrong.

Some people say that many second season episodes of Lost in Space were just dreams that Penny Robinson had, or fiction she wrote. They don't say that because the episodes were brilliant works of science fiction.


Christopher wrote: View Post
A bigger budget or better effects would not have improved ST V, because its problems are conceptual. It didn't need more added (especially rock monsters, which would've been a really stupid climax for a story about a quest for God), it needed stuff deleted. Cut out the three lines about the center of the galaxy, cut out the impossibly high turboshaft, cut out Scotty hitting his head on a pipe, cut out Uhura flirting with Scotty, maybe change the photon torpedoes at the climax to phasers (because antimatter warheads going off that close to the leads would vaporize them and everything for kilometers around them, not just knock them off their feet), and it becomes a much smarter movie.

I wholeheartedly endorse these ideas as well.
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