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Old August 3 2014, 03:00 PM   #196
The Old Mixer
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

And in the late '30s/early '40s he threw thugs out windows and ran them into the paths of their own bullets....
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Old August 3 2014, 03:35 PM   #197
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

It's the weirdest frakking thing. Grant Morrisson and Mark Waid took issue with the level of destruction and Superman killing in MOS. But in later interviews they said the level of action in MOS was fine but the collateral damage in civilian areas is what bothered them. So it's a matter of venue that rustled their jimmies. Superman and Zod fighting in a city is wrong, but Superman wailing on Zod from Earth, Mars and all the way to Pluto is ok.

Also with the scenario Morrisson outlined, it makes it seem like he's ok with the villain dying, just as long as Superman doesn't kill him. Idk about you but dying of asphyxiation in space would be an ugly way to go. I don't see how Superman comes away more of a hero allowing Zod to suffocate in the vaccum of space than Superman choosing to break Zod's neck in the defense of that family and all of humanity.
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Old August 3 2014, 06:52 PM   #198
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
1. It was an empty city and people did not die
2. The excessive destruction had a purpose -- to show how rash and irresponsible Superman is. To show how he has fallen from the hero that he used to be.
3. The destruction was shown in a negative light and people, such as Captain Marvel, were disgusted by Superman's actions. Superman's actions hurt the reputation of the Justice League and empowered power like Amanda Waller and Lex Luthor to stand against them.
I'm not really sure why people are just focusing on this episode. There were plenty of others involving Superman duking it out with some supervillain or giant robot/alien monster in the heart of Metropolis, as numerous buildings got either partially destroyed or leveled along the way (and that's not counting the animated movies where they dialed the destruction up to 10).

Granted, it was a cartoon, and far less grounded than MOS purported to be, but it still makes it clear that this is something pretty common in the Superman world.
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Old August 3 2014, 09:46 PM   #199
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

I loved MOS. It is by far my favorite Superman movie. I actually am tired of the Superman caused all of the destruction arguments. I was fine with the level of destruction as it was depicted and feel that Superman ended us saving more lives than deaths that were caused. I also had no problem killing Zod, I am one of those that felt he killed Zod in Superman II. But as long as it was done with a bit of humore people were fine with it.
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Old June 7 2015, 12:35 AM   #200
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

Yesterday, I picked up Man of Steel at Target, and today I watched it for the first time in close to two years.

It has what I would call "pilot problems" -- it spends time introducing us to characters who would probably show up in later films and do stuff, like the Planet staff, when they aren't strictly speaking, necessary for this film. Setting that aside...

I really enjoy this film. The cast is pretty much perfect. The story hangs together. (And the only destruction that can be squarely laid at Superman's feet is Smallville; he was the one who escalated that situation.) It has a fairly strong emotional pull. Zack Snyder basically made a Terrence Malick Superman movie.

I know that people criticize the ending of the final battle, but there's no other way it could have ended. Zod had made it more than clear that he wasn't going to stop his destructive rampage. It was clearly not the choice that Superman would make if he had a choice, but the point was that he didn't have a choice.

The "happy ending" codas didn't really work for me. Not that they're bad; they just feel out of place. A Malick-y flashback, maybe to Jonathan and Martha discovering the rocket, followed by Superman in space watching the Earth and then the fade to credits, would have felt truer to the film for me.

I'm curious how this will lead to Batman v. Superman, and I hope there's a Man of Steel 2 after that at some point. I want to see more of Amy Adams' Lois. Hell, give her a solo spin-off movie.
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Old June 9 2015, 01:01 AM   #201
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

Any excuse to get more Amy Adams on film is fine with me.

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Old June 9 2015, 03:20 PM   #202
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

there's no other way it could have ended.
Weakest argument ever. The screenwriters can make it end however they wanted to.. they can write a story however they wanted to. Why not write a story that actually has Superman in it? A story where Superman saves people. You know... Superman.

Note: they were so ashamed that they were writing a Superman movie they hesitated before using his name, and when they did, it was a joke.

Notice in Superman 2 that he was less interested in fighting Zod in the city than he was stopping people from getting hurt. That's Superman. What was in this movie was not Superman.
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Old June 9 2015, 03:28 PM   #203
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
there's no other way it could have ended.
Weakest argument ever. The screenwriters can make it end however they wanted to.. they can write a story however they wanted to. Why not write a story that actually has Superman in it? A story where Superman saves people. You know... Superman.

Note: they were so ashamed that they were writing a Superman movie they hesitated before using his name, and when they did, it was a joke.

Notice in Superman 2 that he was less interested in fighting Zod in the city than he was stopping people from getting hurt. That's Superman. What was in this movie was not Superman.
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Old June 9 2015, 06:16 PM   #204
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

Although for all of that concern he had, notice that Superman DID still spend quite a lot of time fighting Zod, Ursa and Non in the city. And only finally drew them away to the Fortress after everything else he tried seemingly failed.

Granted, those villains inflicted a pretty pathetic amount of damage to Metropolis compared to the villains in MOS, but that doesn't change the fact that people were still clearly being endangered. And Supes didn't really seem to be trying that hard to pull the villains out of the city, when you really look at it.

As for the MOS Supes "not being Superman", he still stopped Zod and his men from destroying the entire freakin planet, and nearly killed himself in the process of stopping the World Engine that was destroying Metropolis. Which I'd say is a pretty Superman-type of thing to do, and more than makes up for any other mistakes he might have made along the way.

It's just hilarious to me that people continually seem to ignore that whole part of the story.
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Old June 9 2015, 06:43 PM   #205
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

Great movie, Man Of Steel - loved it, loved Superman in it.
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Old June 15 2015, 04:20 AM   #206
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

I saw this when it was released and this evening I watched it for a second time (on Blu Ray).

I liked it fine when it came out albeit it with a few quibbles. I think I like it a bit better the second time around. The destruction still seems a tad overdone, but the final fight sequence doesn't feel as protracted as it did the first time around.

Two real quibbles remain. The overall colour palette is still too muted which I feel makes the film look washed out. And while not horrible by any stretch I find the music soundtrack to be largely unimpressive. It's pretty much just audio wallpaper.
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Old June 15 2015, 11:12 PM   #207
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

I think my issue with the music is more to do with the fact that is not John Williams. His Superman theme is iconic but that my childhood Superman in 20 years time if another Superman movie is made childreen of today might feel the same way as I do today. And I'm sure I've said it before they could easily have ended the movie with Zod sucked away with the rest of the Kryptonians and it would still have been a decent movie.
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Old June 16 2015, 02:59 AM   #208
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

^I dunno. It kinda seems like a lot of recent big blockbuster movies have had fairly weak scores with weak themes. Zimmer ended up falling short going up against both John Williams' Superman theme & Danny Elfman's Batman theme. Meanwhile, Michael Giacchino's Jurassic World score pales in comparison to John Williams' work on Jurassic Park & The Lost World.

Warped9 wrote: View Post
The destruction still seems a tad overdone, but the final fight sequence doesn't feel as protracted as it did the first time around.
I don't have a problem with the Superman/Zod fight at the end. I'm more bothered by the mass destruction caused by the World Engine. There's an enormous section of Metropolis that isn't even rubble. It's been reduced to a fine powder! So, while Superman technically "saved the day" by killing Zod, the death toll was already so high that it doesn't feel like a win.

I can't really quantify it or rationally justify it. (Many millions more died in Independence Day, yet I don't have a problem with that movie.) It just doesn't feel like a Superman movie to me. It's just so dark & joyless.
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Old June 16 2015, 01:28 PM   #209
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Re: MAN OF STEEL: Another look

I haven't seen Jurassic World so I can't comment on the score, the the Dark Knight saga had a decent enough score. Wass it as good as Elman's theme perhaps not, but tastes in music even if it's just instrumental is subjective.
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