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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old April 10 2014, 01:16 AM   #16
Christopher
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Re: Do all half-Vulcans go through pon farr?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I mean, homosexual humans don't naturally have children, because it takes a female and a male to have children the natural way.
Not true. Homosexual people are perfectly capable of having children, physiologically speaking. A preference for one's own sex doesn't make it physically impossible to mate with the opposite sex, just undesirable. There is a difference between preference and behavior, in the same way that there's a difference between climate and weather. A place with a cold climate can still have the occasional warm day, and a person whose overall sexual preference is in one direction can occasionally choose to make an exception -- or feel obligated to do so. In societies where homosexuality was stigmatized, many gay or lesbian people got married and had children because it was expected, because they were hiding or denying who they were. In some cultures where it was more tolerated, it might still have been considered a social obligation to produce an heir regardless of one's choice of recreational partners; after all, some cultures make more of a distinction between recreational sex and procreative/marital sex than ours traditionally has, which is why many cultures have found it perfectly acceptable for married men to frequent prostitutes or keep concubines. Such a culture might tolerate people having same-sex recreational partners as long as they did their duty and produced offspring. They might not have enjoyed the process of procreating, but we often perform duties we don't enjoy. Preference is one thing, capability another.

Today, plenty of gay couples find ways to have children, whether by adoption, surrogacy, in vitro fertilization, or whatever. There's a big difference between whether you want to have heterosexual intercourse and whether you want to be a parent. GLB people in the past didn't have the range of medical options we have today, but it's likely that many of them still desired to have children, and thus may have bitten the bullet and done what was needed to make babies even though it wasn't their preference.
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Old April 10 2014, 01:18 AM   #17
JarodRussell
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Re: Do all half-Vulcans go through pon farr?

Christopher wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I mean, homosexual humans don't naturally have children, because it takes a female and a male to have children the natural way.
Not true. Homosexual people are perfectly capable of having children, physiologically speaking. A preference for one's own sex doesn't make it physically impossible to mate with the opposite sex, just undesirable.
That's not what I meant in my post though. Two males cannot produce children, just like two females can't. It always takes a male and a female to produce children. The emphasis was on naturally as well.

So I was looking at it from that perspective when I was wondering why it would need a special mention that homosexual Vulcans wouldn't be able to have children.

That tied in with the idea that homosexual Vulcan's don't go through pon farr. If they don't, why do they not, and what implications does that have? Are they incapable of producing children?
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Old April 11 2014, 02:35 AM   #18
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do all half-Vulcans go through pon farr?

I'm sure with some Science Fictiony Jiggery Pokery a same sex couple could have a kid using genetic material from both people.
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Old April 11 2014, 02:59 AM   #19
Christopher
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Re: Do all half-Vulcans go through pon farr?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I'm sure with some Science Fictiony Jiggery Pokery a same sex couple could have a kid using genetic material from both people.
We're not far from that point today. There's already been a child born with genetic material from two women -- nuclear DNA from his mother and father and mitochondrial DNA from a second woman. Combining nuclear DNA from two women shouldn't be that much more difficult.
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Old April 13 2014, 07:00 AM   #20
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Re: Do all half-Vulcans go through pon farr?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I'm sure with some Science Fictiony Jiggery Pokery a same sex couple could have a kid using genetic material from both people.
We're not far from that point today. There's already been a child born with genetic material from two women -- nuclear DNA from his mother and father and mitochondrial DNA from a second woman. Combining nuclear DNA from two women shouldn't be that much more difficult.
I don't know about that; the two problems are entirely different. It's like saying that it should be easy to combine Windows and Unix into a single operating system because you can run a Linux VM; the mitochondria are already separate from the nucleus, and swapping out that DNA is as biologically "simple" as in-vitro fertilization.

I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm sure that eventually we'll be able to. But I don't think that the progress in mitochondrial transplant really says anything at all about progress towards combining nuclear DNA from two women; I think they're largely unrelated problems from a biological perspective, and the techniques necessary to accomplish one don't really have any applicability towards the other.
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