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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 7 2014, 03:02 AM   #1
austen_pierce
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TFF - The Good

TFF is certainly worthy of a good bashing. There's plenty that could have been done better.

Setting that aside to the plethora of other threads, what do you LIKE about this film? Some moments that stand out in my memory; the reasons I still watch....

Bones muttering to himself while Kirk climbs the mountain.

Uhura calling bullshit on Sulu and Checkov's 'blizzard'

"Bourbon and beans... an explosive combination!"

Kirk: "I could use a shower."
Spock: "Yes"

'Admiral' Harve Bennett: "I need Jim Kirk"
Kirk: "Oh please" (sotto voce, you have to really listen for it)

Scotty hearing Kirk's landing plan 'B': "He can't be serious!"

Bones with Kirk and Spock in the brig: "If you're angry at him [Spock] why don't you throw him in the brig?"

Spock to Kirk after the final rescue: "Not in front of the Klingons."

Sulu and Checkov abruptly veering off after nearly following the female Klingon straight into Klaa.


There are more... what saves this movie for you?
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Old April 7 2014, 03:30 AM   #2
Sran
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Re: TFF - The Good

The chemistry among the Big Three is better in this film than any of the others, particularly during the campfire scene and the scenes in the brig and the forward observation room. I also like that Shatner made sure to include memorable scenes and dialogue for each of the other characters, something that didn't happen in previous movies--save his treatment of Doohan, which I found petty and mean-spirited.

I also liked Sybok's character and genuinely felt for him when he realized he'd been manipulated by the entity on the planet--his life's work amounting to nothing more than a carefully crafted hoax. It's a shame he was killed, as it would have been interesting to see him develop a relationship with Spock in subsequent novels--as Spock would likely be the only Vulcan who would consent to see and interact with him.

--Sran
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Old April 7 2014, 03:37 AM   #3
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Re: TFF - The Good

The only good thing about ST:TFF was the Officer's Lounge with it's old-tyme ship's wheel and binnacle. I loved that set.
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Old April 7 2014, 04:15 AM   #4
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Re: TFF - The Good

-The music is great, one of the best scores of the series
-the TOS feel to it, from the plot to the focus on the Big Three
-Laurence Luckinbill's performance

Good lines

"what does God need with a starship?"

"I couldn't help but notice your pain."

"maybe he's not out there Bones, maybe he's in here, the human heart."
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Old April 7 2014, 04:44 AM   #5
Lance
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Re: TFF - The Good

There *is* a lot of things to love about TFF, but I've nothing in particular to contribute as the OP has pretty much covered everything I would list anyway.

It's a movie with a lot of its heart in the right place... it just suffers from a lot of other incidental faults ts well that do tend to sink it a little comparative to the rest of the series.
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Old April 7 2014, 05:00 AM   #6
lurok
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Re: TFF - The Good

One of my favourites, for all its faults. Prefer to IV and VI that bookend it. The good: Luckinbill's charismatic performance; the score; the new bridge set (and I liked the half-finished, Scotty-tinkering stuff); and two standout scenes - the shuttle crash, and Bones' pain segueing into the barrier.
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Old April 7 2014, 05:07 AM   #7
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Re: TFF - The Good

Yeah, I really like this one, too. I love the Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic which really shines in this one. Of all the movies, I feel 5 is the one that most captures the feel of TOS.

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Old April 7 2014, 05:11 AM   #8
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Re: TFF - The Good

along with TMP and TWOK, TFF is one of the only three movies I really like out of the bunch.

Many of my faves already mentioned, but also:

Kirk's delayed take after saying "you can debate shakahree till you're green in the face.

McCoy's I liked him better before he died.

Kirk's 'i don't know ... i just don't know' at bedtime.

The 'eat shit Sybok' look on Kirk's face when Spock refuses to leave with his big bro.

The film's camera compositions, especially as they shift with camera and characters performing subtle moves that are just really really nice (the way KSM move in the lounge scenes is interesting, as they reform into different looking groupings. The mirrored shots you see as the spires rise on the god planet too, where you have Bones & Kirk react to one spire, and then a similar flipped view of Sybok and Spock.

McCoy's defiance of God - that is dead fucking on target.

Luckinbill's look when Kirk calls Sybok 'mad' ... THAT is Luckinbill's almost-Connery moment (also makes me imagine if they'd gotten Von Sydow or Brandauer, who are the others I think they approached post-Connery.)

The whole approach to the god planet with the Goldsmith score and the weird electronic microscope shot of the surface - damn, where ARE they going? (then ... oh, it's just the desert. oh, but it is the LOST IN SPACE/WILDWILDWEST desert with the cool peaks, okay!)

Guess I'll be rewatching this as soon as I get a new TV.
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Old April 7 2014, 06:46 AM   #9
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Re: TFF - The Good

trevanian wrote: View Post
The film's camera compositions, especially as they shift with camera and characters performing subtle moves that are just really really nice (the way KSM move in the lounge scenes is interesting, as they reform into different looking groupings. The mirrored shots you see as the spires rise on the god planet too, where you have Bones & Kirk react to one spire, and then a similar flipped view of Sybok and Spock.
This is something I think doesn't get enough attention. Shatner gets a lot of flack for his directing, but really unfairly. He picks a lot of good camera angles, and guides the camera to focus attention very nicely. There's a fair number of talky scenes in the movie and none of them are dull watching.

Part of this is apparently making a virtue out of the tight budget: since much view screen stuff was done by on-set projection (if I remember it right), and the glimpses of Spock's and McCoy's pains were hidden behind theatrical scrim, with the result that it was relatively easy to have the camera float during all this. A chromakey version would be a lot more work unless the camera were held much more still.
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Old April 7 2014, 07:21 AM   #10
Lance
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Re: TFF - The Good

Nebusj wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
The film's camera compositions, especially as they shift with camera and characters performing subtle moves that are just really really nice (the way KSM move in the lounge scenes is interesting, as they reform into different looking groupings. The mirrored shots you see as the spires rise on the god planet too, where you have Bones & Kirk react to one spire, and then a similar flipped view of Sybok and Spock.
This is something I think doesn't get enough attention. Shatner gets a lot of flack for his directing, but really unfairly. He picks a lot of good camera angles, and guides the camera to focus attention very nicely. There's a fair number of talky scenes in the movie and none of them are dull watching.
Oh totally, totally. The reality that is often sadly overlooked is that Shatner does do a good job technically as the director, and on a story level as you might expect from somebody who had lived this universe for so many years he does evidently understand Star Trek to its very core (which is why the script feels, in so many ways, like such a throwback to TOS).

Although the fans and the public have given him flak for his direction, the truth is everybody on the set had good things to say about him. Even the usual suspects, like Nichols and Koenig, admitted that Shatner was a really, really good director who worked very well with them on the set.
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Old April 7 2014, 09:25 AM   #11
Robert Comsol
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Re: TFF - The Good

I can think of no other movie that delivered a straightforward philosophical and/or pyschological statement: We need our experience, good and bad ("pain"), because it defines who we are.

(only too bad, that Kirk is the only one realizing it - -which almost nullifies the value of aforementioned statement).

In comparison, Spock's "The need of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one" in TWOK is rather lame, IMHO. He's the captain of the Enterprise at this moment and therefore the safety of the crew and ship was his foremost responsibility (which the Italian captain, who ran his cruise ship on the ground, ignored and was appropriately toasted for). Also interesting what the Greek philosopher Aristoteles had to say on the issue.

I loved the observation lounge, too, and the brig toilet seat instruction ("do not use while in spacedock") was just fracking cool.

But in general the movie was rather too naive for my liking.

Bob
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Old April 7 2014, 10:51 AM   #12
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Re: TFF - The Good

I like that it ended.
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Old April 7 2014, 10:56 AM   #13
lurok
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Re: TFF - The Good

Lance wrote: View Post
Nebusj wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
The film's camera compositions, especially as they shift with camera and characters performing subtle moves that are just really really nice (the way KSM move in the lounge scenes is interesting, as they reform into different looking groupings. The mirrored shots you see as the spires rise on the god planet too, where you have Bones & Kirk react to one spire, and then a similar flipped view of Sybok and Spock.
This is something I think doesn't get enough attention. Shatner gets a lot of flack for his directing, but really unfairly. He picks a lot of good camera angles, and guides the camera to focus attention very nicely. There's a fair number of talky scenes in the movie and none of them are dull watching.
Oh totally, totally. The reality that is often sadly overlooked is that Shatner does do a good job technically as the director, and on a story level as you might expect from somebody who had lived this universe for so many years he does evidently understand Star Trek to its very core (which is why the script feels, in so many ways, like such a throwback to TOS).

Although the fans and the public have given him flak for his direction, the truth is everybody on the set had good things to say about him. Even the usual suspects, like Nichols and Koenig, admitted that Shatner was a really, really good director who worked very well with them on the set.

Nebusj wrote: View Post
Part of this is apparently making a virtue out of the tight budget: since much view screen stuff was done by on-set projection (if I remember it right), and the glimpses of Spock's and McCoy's pains were hidden behind theatrical scrim, with the result that it was relatively easy to have the camera float during all this. A chromakey version would be a lot more work unless the camera were held much more still.
Compared to similar dialogue scenes in most of the other films?: yes, Shatner (and his DoP) do a good job.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
the brig toilet seat instruction ("do not use while in spacedock") was just fracking cool.
Nice touch.

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I like that it ended.
prat.
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Old April 7 2014, 12:25 PM   #14
Khan 2.0
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Re: TFF - The Good

random stuff i dug:

-Goldsmith score (esp El Capitan/Sha Ka Ree approach)
-opening rock climb
-mysterious wheelroom
-shuttle escape 'warp speed now!'
-sha ka ree planet (trona peaks)
-kirks end mountain climb (mirroring the opening) & BOP reveal
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Old April 7 2014, 01:42 PM   #15
mendelin
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Re: TFF - The Good

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I can think of no other movie that delivered a straightforward philosophical and/or pyschological statement: We need our experience, good and bad ("pain"), because it defines who we are.
Exactly my thoughts! I love TOS-movies for short and clear messages to the audience.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
In comparison, Spock's "The need of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one" in TWOK is rather lame, IMHO. He's the captain of the Enterprise at this moment and therefore the safety of the crew and ship was his foremost responsibility (which the Italian captain, who ran his cruise ship on the ground, ignored and was appropriately toasted for). Also interesting what the Greek philosopher Aristoteles had to say on the issue.
"The needs of the many..." message in various forms was in all II-IV movies.

In ST:TWOK:
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one". Supposed to be clear and totally logic. An initial message.
In ST:TSFS:
"The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many". This reversal of initial message is a reason to think deeper. The second statement is closer to human than previous one. And the question is, why?

The answer can be found in ST:TVH:
"Humans are sometimes illogical. It helps to win". I found an amazing article, which addresses this topic.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
But in general the movie was rather too naive for my liking.

Bob
IMO, all TOS-movies are naive, but it makes them really "human"
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