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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 2 2014, 07:59 AM   #16
Timo
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

Kirk also says to Decker, "five years out there dealing with unknowns like this", which would indicate there was only a single five-year mission. However, that doesn't preclude Kirk and the Enterprise having an additional mission which perhaps wasn't an exploratory mission (so no dealing with "unknowns", as during the five-year mission). Maybe they functioned as the Enterprise-D seemed to do much more often, as a diplomatic/policing vessel flying the flag of the Federation to various events.
Another thing this doesn't preclude is that the crew dispersed after the five-year mission: Kirk got a desk job, Uhura became the communications officer of USS Pompous, Chekov attended the Security and Tactical Training School and took a tour of duty at the Ggressivite front, Sulu took a six-year leave of absence to be with his family, Scotty joined a team planning for the big refit, and Kyle became a barber but, having finally perfected his mustache, decided to re-enlist.

I agree that the ultimate TMP take on how Kirk came back is dramatically more satisfactory than the early versions. It's delightful to have the hero reintroduced to us as the villain! Of course, unlike with M:I and other exploiters of this character twist, the movie is supposed to make Kirk the hero again by the time of the end credits - but whether it succeeds there is debatable.

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Old April 5 2014, 04:14 AM   #17
Sran
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

Timo wrote: View Post
I agree that the ultimate TMP take on how Kirk came back is dramatically more satisfactory than the early versions. It's delightful to have the hero reintroduced to us as the villain! Of course, unlike with M:I and other exploiters of this character twist, the movie is supposed to make Kirk the hero again by the time of the end credits - but whether it succeeds there is debatable.
I don't think it succeeded at all. If you ask me, Kirk's behavior throughout the films is an illustration of his leadership by arrogance approach to starship command.

The Motion Picture: Kirk takes command of Enterprise away from Decker despite knowing almost nothing about the ship's new capabilities. He nearly destroys the ship after flying it into a wormhole caused by premature activation of the warp engines. Decker correctly points out a flaw in Kirk's choice of phaser fire to destroy an asteroid in the wormhole, for which Kirk drags him to his quarters with the intention of chewing him out. It's only after McCoy chews him out that Kirk realizes he's going about everything all wrong.

The Wrath of Khan: Kirk accepts command of the Enterprise from Spock and almost immediately places the ship in jeopardy by ignoring the advice of a competent junior officer, who advises him to raise shields upon the approach of another vessel. He defeats Khan only by virtue of his superior experience--which apparently amounts to him realizing that a starship can fly up or down instead of merely horizontal.

The Search for Spock: Kirk ignores the warning of a superior officer and takes a broken-down Enterprise back to Genesis to retrieve Spock. His desire to help his friends is commendable, but his blatant disregard for Starfleet protocol nearly gets his friends killed--first in battle and later on the Genesis planet. Kirk lucks out when Kruge manages to wander onto the wrong side of a land mass that's about to come apart, and later benefits from his crew taking over a Klingon ship in his absence. Spock is saved, but countless others die due to a chain of events initiated by Kirk's carelessness.

The Voyage Home: Kirk and company decide to return to Earth to face the consequences of their actions during the previous film. Along the way, Kirk decides to once again trample on Starfleet regulations and travel back in time to find humpback whales capable of answering the strange probe threatening Earth in the twenty third century. Earth is saved, and Kirk gets his captaincy back. All he had to do was fuck up the timeline.

Of note, I don't blame Kirk for Chekov's stupidity during this film. I always laugh during the scene in which Chekov falls from the aircraft carrier, not because it's funny, but because it's exactly the kind of situation he almost always finds himself in. People ask why Chekov never got his own ship. I say, "Have you seen all the stupid things he did? How can someone who acts like that possibly succeed in the big chair?"

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Old April 5 2014, 04:26 AM   #18
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

Sran wrote: View Post
Of note, I don't blame Kirk for Chekov's stupidity during this film. I always laugh during the scene in which Chekov falls from the aircraft carrier, not because it's funny, but because it's exactly the kind of situation he almost always finds himself in. People ask why Chekov never got his own ship. I say, "Have you seen all the stupid things he did? How can someone who acts like that possibly succeed in the big chair?"

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Funny you should bring up Chekov, I was thinking about him recently. On the tv series, Chekov was presented as sort of a "student of Spock", often taking over at the science station, or dong odd specific tasks for Spock, theoretically grooming him for a Science Officer career of his own one day.

Well, "one day" finally comes in The Motion Picture, and Chekov is, of all things, Security Chief. Did he not like the science position after all, and switched disciplines, or did he go around making too many Russian jokes, which ended up hurting his credibility as a scientist?
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Old April 5 2014, 04:33 AM   #19
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Well, "one day" finally comes in The Motion Picture, and Chekov is, of all things, Security Chief. Did he not like the science position after all, and switched disciplines, or did he go around making too many Russian jokes, which ended up hurting his credibility as a scientist?
Good point! I can surmise only that Kirk and Spock were impressed with his bravery during the infamous brawl aboard Space Station K7 and decided security was a better fit.

On a more serious note, it may be that a posting in security was projected to be the only opening aboard the Enterprise once the refit was finished. It's never made clear who Decker wanted for his senior staff. At least a few of the spots were filled by people Kirk handpicked. Maybe Decker and Chekov didn't hit it off, and the former decided early-on in the refit that he wanted another science officer.

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Old April 12 2014, 04:24 AM   #20
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

You should check out IDW's comic Mission's End. It addresses both Kirk and Spock, as well as McCoy.
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Old April 12 2014, 05:09 AM   #21
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

Khan 2.0 wrote: View Post
i wonder why they felt they had to set it so soon after TOS? Why not 10 years as in real time to account for the actors aging and radical redesigning..?

they got it right for TWOK moving forward a few years...(as did VI i think)

(similarly STID was also surprisingly soon after ST09 yet had the 2nd longest gap inbetween films)
I read somewhere I think that Shatner was at that time barely accepting he was forty. So maybe they didn't want to aggravate him by saying more (actual) time had passed.

However it could be that was in TWOK not TMP. Can't remember who said it (Meyer or Shatner?).
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Old April 12 2014, 02:51 PM   #22
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

Shatner was in his late 40s by the time they made TMP...think he should have gotten accustomed by then.

He would have been just turning 50 when they made TWOK...maybe that's what it was about.
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Old April 13 2014, 06:19 PM   #23
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Funny you should bring up Chekov, I was thinking about him recently. On the tv series, Chekov was presented as sort of a "student of Spock", often taking over at the science station, or dong odd specific tasks for Spock, theoretically grooming him for a Science Officer career of his own one day.

Well, "one day" finally comes in The Motion Picture, and Chekov is, of all things, Security Chief. Did he not like the science position after all, and switched disciplines, or did he go around making too many Russian jokes, which ended up hurting his credibility as a scientist?
Navigation always seemed like the more sciency of the two bridge stations. I think Chekov as weapons officer on the bridge is a passable fit because he had experience of weapons and shields on the navigation control but as security chief? I don't recall Chekov ever displaying much ability in a fight (I think even Martha Landon could probably have beat him up quite easily) and his knowledge of security protocols in STIV and STVI is lamentable. When I wrote my Youtube comic I glossed over him as security chief and appointed an Andorian woman using Suzie Plakson instead. MUCH better.

On the other hand, Chekov as first officer on a science vessel felt a better fit - if you overlook the whole missing planet and inability to spot complex life forms.
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Old April 14 2014, 02:22 AM   #24
Sran
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
On the other hand, Chekov as first officer on a science vessel felt a better fit - if you overlook the whole missing planet and inability to spot complex life forms.
That didn't work for me either, so I created a character from scratch to serve as Reliant's science officer under Terrell's command. As for why she's not aboard the ship in TWOK, it's because she's on leave and visiting family on Earth. My personal canon has her going off on Chekov when she finds out his stupidity got his captain killed.

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Old April 14 2014, 09:11 AM   #25
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

Would the Reliant be a "science vessel"? The movie made a point of portraying her as the superior fighting ship, giving Khan another unfair advantage... Mainly, though, this ship design existed to visually distinguish the two combatants; there was no plot need for them to have different mission descriptions.

Throughout the movies, Chekov is a generic redshirt (that is, graycollar). In most of the movies, it appears he's aboard the ship not as a member of the crew, but as a member of an impromptu entourage. Was he ever really a Chief of Security? We saw him wear a silver badge at first, but that disappeared after ST:TMP without being properly explained. He also sat at the console that fired the guns, but he did a lot of that in his previous role as Navigator, too. For all we know, silver denoted "People brought aboard without a clearly defined position", and that would go for most of the Security detail because there had been no intention to launch the ship operationally and Security would be the least likely to have an onboard role during the final weeks of refitting.

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Old April 14 2014, 07:01 PM   #26
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

I get hung up on department divisions but there has always been so much cross-pollination I suppose we shouldn't. Grey desingated security division in TMP I'm afraid (the Rhaandarite with a grey badge was manning the bridge internal security station) but there is lots of silly stuff like why engineering and helm should both be gold in TWoK. I think TMP's colour scheme did make some sense even if Chekov was mis-cast - that is to say the badge scheme. I would have preferred the officers and crew to stick to more recognisable uniforms personally. Variations on the admiral's dress uniform for officers generally would have been better.

As far as grey collars go, this includes science, communications and navigation. As I said, it makes little logical sense.

I think it was a shame that Chapel wasn't brought back as head of life sciences instead of a second fiddle MD not that it would have changed her contribution much but she could have had some input into the analysis of V'Ger as well as the probe.

I don't think Reliant was more powerful than Enterprise but I agree, she was a starship on a scientific mission rather than a science vessel like Grissom. Nonetheless, to fulfill that mission she would have had a greater number of scientific crew and equipment assigned.
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Old April 20 2014, 02:05 AM   #27
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

Sran wrote: View Post
People ask why Chekov never got his own ship. I say, "Have you seen all the stupid things he did? How can someone who acts like that possibly succeed in the big chair?"
Starfleet doesn't want a Captain who screams like a little girl.
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Old April 20 2014, 08:49 PM   #28
Timo
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

As far as the color codes go, I think we can safely ditch any scheme the makers of ST:TMP might have had in mind. That mission was launched with an impromptu crew, with just moments of warning - quite possibly, most of the people weren't even wearing their own uniforms, but something they grabbed from the nearest closet!

An Ensign with Lt(jg) braid on his sleeve is perfectly excusable. Navigators sitting at Tactical or Security without first changing out of their gray-means-navigation uniforms is even more so... And intrusive Vulcan visitors who get assigned Science Officer position by personal bias get to wear orange-means-waste-management because the fine crewmen of the Proper Uniform Department never got aboard when the ship scrambled.

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Old April 21 2014, 12:44 AM   #29
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

Timo wrote: View Post
As far as the color codes go, I think we can safely ditch any scheme the makers of ST:TMP might have had in mind. That mission was launched with an impromptu crew, with just moments of warning - quite possibly, most of the people weren't even wearing their own uniforms, but something they grabbed from the nearest closet!

An Ensign with Lt(jg) braid on his sleeve is perfectly excusable. Navigators sitting at Tactical or Security without first changing out of their gray-means-navigation uniforms is even more so... And intrusive Vulcan visitors who get assigned Science Officer position by personal bias get to wear orange-means-waste-management because the fine crewmen of the Proper Uniform Department never got aboard when the ship scrambled.

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Old April 21 2014, 01:43 AM   #30
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Re: TMP: The return of main characters - questions and thoughts

With all of this talk of how William Shatner's had such issues with his having aged, and this curious denial over, yay, these many decades that he wears a hairpiece, he sounds remarkably fragile. Perhaps his reputation for having an overblown ego is pure bluff? In any event, Shatner looked the best he ever did in STAR TREK: The Motion Picture and his performance in it was the last TV Kirk he ever delivered. It's another reason why I love TMP so much, was how true to the character his delivery was.

Outside of that, I love it that the entire cast came back and I wonder if any of the Second Bananas had been able to get regular gigs without STAR TREK, would they have given it a miss? Like George Takei, for example. "Oh, My! From this script you gave me, I gather I'm just going to sit there, anchored at that console again, while Bill Shatner gets all the fun stuff to do. You know what? I appreciate the offer, but I think Sulu's going to be taking a vacation on some distant planet somewhere, while The Motion Picture's taking place ..." And who could blame him? I sure as hell wouldn't have felt compelled to play a glorified extra, again, after all those years of doing it, if I could get decent gigs, again ...
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