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Old April 2 2014, 03:22 PM   #1
Robert Comsol
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TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

Prior to "Assignment: Earth" we had seen magic devices that could create things out of thin air (e.g. "The Squire of Gothos"), yet I think we saw the first true replicator (in the TNG sense) in the last episode of TOS' Season Two: http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...arthhd0458.jpg

Gene Roddenberry participated in the screenplay writing, is there any backstory that he rethought the concept of these TOS "food synthesizers" when he realized he could have such replicators instead?

Bob
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Old April 2 2014, 03:26 PM   #2
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

While never explained on air, what (supposedly) TOS had was machines that produced the food and transferred it via high speed mini-turbo-lifts to the serving location.

Not a "replicator."

According to McCoy in the episode Arena, the food aboard the ship was in some fashion "reconstituted," which could in part explain the speed at which it is produced. The ship also had (Charlie X) a kitchen and and at least one cook (voiced by Gene Roddenberry).

The transporters in TOS were seen to be relatively slow, it would have taken longer for the food in TOS too appear if what they were employing were replicators.

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Old April 2 2014, 04:26 PM   #3
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

Basically, a high tech "dumbwaiter" system.

If it were a replicator type device, generating "syntho meat" from a bank of base protein sludge, we wouldn't have had tribbles in Kirk's "chicken sandwich and coffee".

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old April 2 2014, 04:39 PM   #4
Robert Comsol
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

^^ I rememember (courtesy of Greg Stone?) a reprint in a TNG fan magazine of the menu from the "Café des Artistes" from "We'll Always Have Paris" and one course was "tribble sautée".

So maybe the chef of the TOS Enterprise was merely a hundred years ahead of gourmet taste and felt the tribble would be an extra treat next to Kirk's chicken sandwhich?

Bob
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Old April 2 2014, 04:55 PM   #5
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

It's worth remembering that, despite Roddenberry's credit-hogging, TNG was a joint creation of Roddenberry, David Gerrold, D.C. Fontana, and Bob Justman. Now, in Gerrold's only original Star Trek novel, Bantam's The Galactic Whirlpool from 1980, there is a scene in the rec room in which the tables are equipped with transporter-based food synthesizers. A visitor to the ship from a long-lost human generation vessel is amazed to see food materializing out of thin air in the center of the tables. So it seems highly likely that the transporter-based replicators of TNG were one of the many ideas Gerrold contributed to the series, although they ended up being alcoves in the wall instead. (Although we did see tabletop replicators eventually, in the alien automated repair station in ENT: "Dead Stop.")
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Old April 2 2014, 05:32 PM   #6
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

I think it's murky enough that one could look back at TOS and assume those slots in the walls were replicators, just like TNG.
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Old April 2 2014, 05:44 PM   #7
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
^^ I rememember (courtesy of Greg Stone?) a reprint in a TNG fan magazine of the menu from the "Café des Artistes" from "We'll Always Have Paris" and one course was "tribble sautée".

So maybe the chef of the TOS Enterprise was merely a hundred years ahead of gourmet taste and felt the tribble would be an extra treat next to Kirk's chicken sandwhich?

Bob
Ah, Jesu...I have not had a decent Tribbleè de Sauteé since I cannot remember...



King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I think it's murky enough that one could look back at TOS and assume those slots in the walls were replicators, just like TNG.
Agree, and kinda miss those grey, Teflon-looking coffee cups...mmmm...good to the last drop...



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Old April 2 2014, 06:03 PM   #8
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

I think the first TOS (sorta) appearance of a true TNG style replicator was the animated series episode "Practical Joker." The food slot starts spewing sandwiches and fruits and vegetables Far more food and faster than any dumbwaiter system would deliver.
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Old April 2 2014, 06:13 PM   #9
T'Girl
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Far more food and faster than any dumbwaiter system would deliver.
Or replicator?

Even in the 24th century the food materializes over the course of a few seconds.

I think it makes more sense that a numorious series of mini-turbo lifts kept arriving and quickly getting out of the way, their arrivial speed acounting for the food being "launched" out of the opening.

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Old April 2 2014, 06:53 PM   #10
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

Shawnster wrote: View Post
I think the first TOS (sorta) appearance of a true TNG style replicator was the animated series episode "Practical Joker." The food slot starts spewing sandwiches and fruits and vegetables Far more food and faster than any dumbwaiter system would deliver.
Something replicator-like is implicit in ``Patterns of Force'', however, unless the Enterprise keeps plenty of 20th century military uniforms around in stock just in case they happen to pop in on Space Nazi World this week.
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Old April 2 2014, 06:58 PM   #11
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

The Making of Star Trek did establish that they had clothing fabricators that broke down clothing into its constituent fibers and reconstituted it on demand. But they weren't transporter-based. The only transporter-based technology in the 23rd century was the transporter. They did have other kinds of synthesizers that functioned similarly to replicators, but they weren't actual replicators any more than a phonograph was a CD player.
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Old April 2 2014, 07:26 PM   #12
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

Christopher wrote: View Post
It's worth remembering that, despite Roddenberry's credit-hogging, TNG was a joint creation of Roddenberry, David Gerrold
For the love of Q, Gerrold, FINISH THE WAR AGAINST THE CHTORR!!

CHTORRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

Ok, back to the thread.
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Old April 2 2014, 07:38 PM   #13
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

The only transporter-based technology in the 23rd century was the transporter.
Which is a bit unrealistic, really. There might well have been plenty of, if not transporter-based, then at least transporter-related technologies at the time. We could even interpret most of the magic of treknology in terms of a single unreal breakthrough, or a handful, applied in a number of ways (say, phasers are weaponized transporters, warp drive is propulsionized antigravity, etc.).

Or then we could say that TOS food and uniform and flintlock production was based on just a smidgen of transporter technology and 99% of something else, and things developed from there. Declaring the TOS technology completely unrelated seems unduly harsh to me.

As for why replicators are open alcoves rather than tabletop units... Technological reasons are difficult to postulate, as the alcoves aren't more shielded, there's no obvious requirement for surrounding the process from multiple sides, etc. So we might be talking about sheer tradition here. People just won't accept a food replicator that doesn't look like a 23rd century auto-chef! And Starfleet goes with the flow, using replicators that look almost exactly like the auto-chefs they had aboard late 23rd century ships such as the Enterprise-A.

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Old April 2 2014, 08:17 PM   #14
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

Rather than a bunch of mini-dumbwaiters, I'm thinking more like a ship-wide pneumatic tube system.
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Old April 2 2014, 09:35 PM   #15
Robert Comsol
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Re: TNG replicators first seen in "Assignment: Earth"?

According to "Charlie X" the Enterprise must have had a chef and a galley in the beginning, at least.

KIRK: On Earth today, it's Thanksgiving. If the crew has to eat synthetic meat loaf, I want it to look like turkey.

CHEF [OC]: Captain Kirk from ship's Galley. Sir, I put meat loaf in the ovens. There's turkeys in there now. Real turkeys.

It would seem to me that you could have (synthetic) meals and prepared to-go sandwiches. The icecream in "And the Children..." was probably easy and fast to create for the food synthesizers.

Interesting story about David Gerrold, but is it possible he was inspired by Gary 7's replicator? As it stands that replicator still looks like a genuine Roddenberry invention.

Bob
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