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Old March 25 2014, 01:07 PM   #16
Forbin
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

Whose idea was it to have the action heroin get a C-section, then hop up off the operating table and spend the rest of the movie running and jumping like John McClane? 'cause that was the stupidest thing in a very stupid movie. Well, except for Charleze running away from the falling spaceship and not thinking to turn left or right. And the entire crew deciding they'd be very happy to be kamikazes without any discussion. And....

Hm. Yeah. The whole thing was pretty stupid.
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Old March 25 2014, 03:10 PM   #17
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I found the mystery of the Engineers to be absolutely fascinating, and much more interesting than another Xenomorph jumping out of the air ducts, and I would absolutely love to see Shaw and David make their way to the Engineer Homeworld and see what's there, and why the Engineers changed their minds about humanity.
I agree with this. By the 3rd Aliens film the Xenomorph's were boring. The story behind the engineers is far more compelling. While Prometheus had its problems, IMO it was hardly the worst movie of the year.

We've seen plenty worse last year - e.g. Will Smith's After Earth.
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Old March 25 2014, 03:29 PM   #18
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

I'm still convinced that the reason a lot of people disliked Prometheus is that they were expecting something that Ridley Scott explicitly said it was never going to be. He's tired of Xenomorphs and wants nothing whatsoever to do with them anymore, which is the whole reason he brought on Lindelof in the first place. I mean, has anyone seen the pre-Lindelof script for Prometheus, by Jon Spaihts? Regardless of what opinions you hold of the final film, the one we were going to get before he was called in was going to be hilariously awful: Imagine the worst kind of pseudo-Star Trek patronizing technobabble clusterfuck, but with the third act being a slasher movie. Everything is spoonfed to the audience and it goes out of its way to wink and nudge to remind people that this is an Alien prequel, guys, we're doing the fuck out of the Alien thing. Also, one of the Space Jockeys was literally Jesus.

For my money, I adore Prometheus and it's in my top three Ridley Scott movies on a good day. I'm not enthralled by the idea of the Green Lantern writer being on the project, but we probably aren't going to get too many more movies out of Sir Ridley, and I'm very glad that he'll return to the Prometheus universe before he's done.
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Old March 25 2014, 05:24 PM   #19
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

Timby wrote: View Post
I'm still convinced that the reason a lot of people disliked Prometheus is that they were expecting something that Ridley Scott explicitly said it was never going to be. He's tired of Xenomorphs and wants nothing whatsoever to do with them anymore, which is the whole reason he brought on Lindelof in the first place.
I don't know, the Alien(s)-style xenomorph bas-relief on the temple wall, the bioweapon jars arranged in a similar manner to the xenomorph eggs, the geologist gradually changing into a xenomorph, the giant facehugger, and the modified xenomorph baby at the end are an odd way of showing that he wanted nothing to do with them at all.

I would have been fine with either a true prequel to Alien that focused more on the Xenomorphs or a story that focused entirely on the Engineers, but what we got was sort of a hybrid of those that seemingly couldn't decide what it wanted to be, and so it ended up giving short shrift to both aspects of the story and was unsatisfying as a result (IMO).

I would have much preferred some greater background be given to the society and objectives of the Engineers rather than the utterly ridiculous action sequences we got toward the end. Or to Tweedledum and Tweedledee meandering through the alien ship that the world's most incompetent geologist mapped himself, while the world's worst biologist pets the hostile space cobra with inevitable results. Or to Old Guy Pearce visiting from the set of the LSD-inspired monolith sequence in 2001, complete with terrible 60's-era prosthetic work.

I know they can (and most likely will) greatly expand on the story of the Engineers in the sequel, and I look forward to it, but when you sell the film as telling their story and then don't adequately deliver on that premise; nor do you effectively set up the events in Alien; nor do you make a well-constructed and self-contained story that stands on its own merits, it's more than just disappointment at the lack of more xenomorphs that's the problem.
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Old March 25 2014, 05:33 PM   #20
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

The honest trailer preaches it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBaKqOMGPWc
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Old March 25 2014, 05:34 PM   #21
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
I would have much preferred some greater background be given to the society and objectives of the Engineers rather than the utterly ridiculous action sequences we got toward the end. Or to Tweedledum and Tweedledee meandering through the alien ship that the world's most incompetent geologist mapped himself, while the world's worst biologist pets the hostile space cobra with inevitable results. Or to Old Guy Pearce visiting from the set of the LSD-inspired monolith sequence in 2001, complete with terrible 60's-era prosthetic work.

I know they can (and most likely will) greatly expand on the story of the Engineers in the sequel, and I look forward to it, but when you sell the film as telling their story and then don't adequately deliver on that premise; nor do you effectively set up the events in Alien; nor do you make a well-constructed and self-contained story that stands on its own merits, it's more than just disappointment at the lack of more xenomorphs that's the problem.
I completely agree with all of this. The old-age makeup looked simply horrendous. And the Geologist who doesn't care about alien rocks and the Biologist who is afraid of an alien corpse...WHY WERE THEY EVEN THERE?!
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Old March 25 2014, 05:45 PM   #22
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

As an HD whore, I enjoyed Prometheus. I thought by itself (as long as you understood the back story) it was good movie to see.
Though, as an Alien (franchise) fan, I didn't think it was all that great of a movie. It seemed almost like they tired to make it stand alone away from the rest of the franchise. I don't really know what it was that threw it off but something just didn't seem like it was done right with it.
As far as a sequal goes, I dont know how I feel about it. Im sure again, as an HD whore, it will be a good movie to see. But I doubt Ill buy it or want to watch it again.
But who knows.
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Old March 25 2014, 05:47 PM   #23
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Timby wrote: View Post
I'm still convinced that the reason a lot of people disliked Prometheus is that they were expecting something that Ridley Scott explicitly said it was never going to be. He's tired of Xenomorphs and wants nothing whatsoever to do with them anymore, which is the whole reason he brought on Lindelof in the first place.
I don't know, the Alien(s)-style xenomorph bas-relief on the temple wall, the bioweapon jars arranged in a similar manner to the xenomorph eggs, the geologist gradually changing into a xenomorph, the giant facehugger, and the modified xenomorph baby at the end are an odd way of showing that he wanted nothing to do with them at all.

I would have been fine with either a true prequel to Alien that focused more on the Xenomorphs or a story that focused entirely on the Engineers, but what we got was sort of a hybrid of those that seemingly couldn't decide what it wanted to be, and so it ended up giving short shrift to both aspects of the story and was unsatisfying as a result (IMO).

I would have much preferred some greater background be given to the society and objectives of the Engineers rather than the utterly ridiculous action sequences we got toward the end. Or to Tweedledum and Tweedledee meandering through the alien ship that the world's most incompetent geologist mapped himself, while the world's worst biologist pets the hostile space cobra with inevitable results. Or to Old Guy Pearce visiting from the set of the LSD-inspired monolith sequence in 2001, complete with terrible 60's-era prosthetic work.

I know they can (and most likely will) greatly expand on the story of the Engineers in the sequel, and I look forward to it, but when you sell the film as telling their story and then don't adequately deliver on that premise; nor do you effectively set up the events in Alien; nor do you make a well-constructed and self-contained story that stands on its own merits, it's more than just disappointment at the lack of more xenomorphs that's the problem.
I was going to retort but Locutus nailed it.
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Old March 25 2014, 05:47 PM   #24
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post

I don't know, the Alien(s)-style xenomorph bas-relief on the temple wall, the bioweapon jars arranged in a similar manner to the xenomorph eggs, the geologist gradually changing into a xenomorph, the giant facehugger, and the modified xenomorph baby at the end are an odd way of showing that he wanted nothing to do with them at all.
Well, that's why Scott kept saying it wasn't an Alien prequel or sequel, it just "shared some of its DNA."

I would have been fine with either a true prequel to Alien that focused more on the Xenomorphs or a story that focused entirely on the Engineers, but what we got was sort of a hybrid of those that seemingly couldn't decide what it wanted to be, and so it ended up giving short shrift to both aspects of the story and was unsatisfying as a result (IMO).

I would have much preferred some greater background be given to the society and objectives of the Engineers rather than the utterly ridiculous action sequences we got toward the end. Or to Tweedledum and Tweedledee meandering through the alien ship that the world's most incompetent geologist mapped himself, while the world's worst biologist pets the hostile space cobra with inevitable results.
It all boils down to how you interpret it. The way I read the film, these people thought they were leaders in their fields, but the only one who actually even remotely was was Shaw. Everyone else was an incompetent hobo hauled off the street by Weyland, because he didn't give a shit about the mission, he just wanted immortality. "Pfft, as long as they get me there, David can do the rest."

I know they can (and most likely will) greatly expand on the story of the Engineers in the sequel, and I look forward to it, but when you sell the film as telling their story and then don't adequately deliver on that premise; nor do you effectively set up the events in Alien; nor do you make a well-constructed and self-contained story that stands on its own merits, it's more than just disappointment at the lack of more xenomorphs that's the problem.
I guess it boils down to what you're looking to get out of the film. It is such an unsettling film. I'm a huge fan of Ridley Scott but I don't think he's ever done anything of this magnitude. The attention to detail, as seen in Alien, and the relentlessness of the themes, as seen in Blade Runner, are there. I don't think Prometheus beats either of those films as Scott's "best," but it's definitely one of his smartest films.

Think of how you approached love, relationships, when you were young. You went all-in with this naive, idealistic sensibility, and then you get in over your head, and you wonder to yourself, "What the HELL have I done?" You try to do your best to carry on, soldier forward, and find some meaning in everything ... and, nope. Nothing.

Then you meet "God," your creator, the being responsible for your existence, and you ask God why everything is so incredibly messed up. And God ... gives you no answers, shows nothing but pure hatred and then sets out to express that hate upon your entire race and it's incumbent upon you to prevent that disaster.

Fuck, now I need to go watch it again tonight.

Edit: Time to start talking titles. Prometheus and Prometheur? Prometheus 2: Genetic Boogaloo? 2Pro 2Metheus?

Edit 2: To further clarify, when Ridley Scott goes sci-fi, his films aren't necessarily about telling a compelling story. Blade Runner is boring as hell until you look at the design, the art direction, and the themes, and you realize that it isn't a boring cop movie with pretty pictures, because there's so much going on beneath the surface -- the subtext is ridiculously rich. Even in Alien, too, because that film's about a gigantic penis monster raping the shit out of a crew of ineffective fools and only the woman can repel it.

Last edited by Timby; March 25 2014 at 08:09 PM.
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Old March 25 2014, 06:39 PM   #25
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

Amateur-metheus?
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Old March 25 2014, 06:48 PM   #26
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

I read this as one possible premise:

Prometheus 2
Overview Premise
Engineers have DNA matches humans not because humans come from Engineers. Engineers come from humans.

Shaw & David discover that Earth Humans came from the Paradise Planet Humans.

Where the Humans there engineered the Engineers.

Although they do A.I., Paradise Planet Humans are not into robots and automation. They use Engineers more for that.

Bred and bred for higher specialized intelligence and physicality�.. enthralled by intellect and physique the PP Humans overlooked conscience.

Engineers do not reproduce. Because the elements needed to allow them to do so is hidden. Engineers are not happy about that.

�We are conscious and self aware and yet because you fear us you don�t allow us to reproduce��.

Engineers would be rid of the yoke of the Paradise Planet Humans but they must keep them safe for now.

So they continue in a drone like role specialized to do certain things.
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Old March 25 2014, 06:53 PM   #27
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

Please tell me that Apparently it's Happening is the real Prometheus 2 subtitle! Outstanding.
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Old March 25 2014, 08:39 PM   #28
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

Prometheus wasn't the worst movie ever made or anything, and I really wanted to like it... but one gets the nagging sense watching it that the pieces of a much, much better film were left on the cutting room floor. There are a lot of awkward transitions that suggest crucial set-up for character actions and interactions were cut, and I'm with Forbin on post C-section heroics (at least gesture at an explanation if you're going to do that?), and I don't understand how when running from a large object rolling in a straight line it does not occur to someone to move to the side, and I felt like the final encounter with the Engineer and the decision to basically just make it a Boss Fight was a hugely wasted opportunity in treating a much more human-esque and less Pure Nightmare Fuel kind of adversary.

Stuff like that is frustrating, because there were pieces of a really good, smart Ridley Scott movie there. Fassbender's David was perhaps the coolest and creepiest Weyland-Yutani android we've seen (or was he just a Weyland android?), the visual design was spectacular, I liked the fact that they didn't just set up the events of Alien in a linear fashion and made room for a mystery both larger and more interesting than just the xenomorphs, the setup of the mystery and the creepy atmosphere was top notch, and an endeavor is never entirely wasted if it involves the awesome Charlize Theron being totally &!*@ing awesome, as she always is.

All in all I was happy they made enough money to have another shot at delivering a really solid film exploring these concepts. Scott is a creator who cares enough about craft to make a real effort at correcting flaws like that and delivering a better product.
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Old March 25 2014, 10:16 PM   #29
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

So are the AVP movies officially thrown out of Alien canon with Prometheus?
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Old March 25 2014, 10:51 PM   #30
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Re: Prometheus 2: Apparently it's happening

^ Never seen them. Why would they be?
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