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Old April 12 2014, 07:45 AM   #76
surak-toc
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

What you have here is a sweet piece of design, looking forward to its progression
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Old April 12 2014, 02:07 PM   #77
Warped9
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Looking at it now in 3D I can see two slight changes I could make. One is relatively easy to do while the other not so much. The first is the rise of the upper saucer bulge--it could be just a bit lower and the curvature tweaked just a bit. That change I should be able to do with relative ease.

The second change isn't so easy. The secondary hull could extend further back just a bit more. That change would be a lot more involved because it would involve remalking the entire secondary hull. That's not something I'm willing to do now, but down the road if I revisit this design then I could it.
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Old April 12 2014, 02:49 PM   #78
beamMe
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
The secondary hull could extend further back just a bit more.
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Old April 12 2014, 04:19 PM   #79
Warped9
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

beamMe wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
The secondary hull could extend further back just a bit more.
I'm not talking about 50% more. I mean maybe about 10-20%.

But as I said earlier that would involve rebuilding the entire secondary hull and the shuttlecraft bay and fantail. Not this time around considering how much work it was to make it such as it is.


Presently I'm working on the support pylons. Hopefully I'll get those done today. When completed then all the major components will be done and the process of detailing will begin.
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Old April 13 2014, 06:24 PM   #80
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

I put these two components together to share a preliminary look at the nacelle and pylon assembly. Normally I keep the componensts separate as I detail them and then put them together when they're finished. In case anyone is curious the pylons are at 55.2 degrees from the vertical or 34.8 degrees from the horizontal.



If we assume the nacelle caps were to be lighted I wonder what kind of effect there could be. The TOS E had spinning lights and I suppose something like that could be done here. Besides that maybe something like a pulsing or strobing effect could work. Of coure there's the old standby of a simple constant light. The only certainty I have at this point is the nacelle caps to be amber. I never cared for the red lighting that became conventional. In similar vein I never really cared for the red lighting of impulse engines either. To that end my "impulse" drive will actually be an anti gravity or negative gravity system looking decidely more mechanical rather than a couple of red lighted exhaust ports.
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Old April 13 2014, 08:16 PM   #81
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

There are a lot of elements about this design so far that I love. In fact, every thing by itself is awesome, but, my personal opinion, having the engineering hull so far forward makes it look unbalanced.

That said, I will admit that my opinion may be premature. I look forward to seeing how it all holds together once it's finished.

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Old April 13 2014, 08:57 PM   #82
Warped9
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

When I was initially designing this of course I tried it with the secondary hull set more rearward in a more familiar configuration. To me it just looked meh. It looked so much like everything else. Also in terms of visual balance you can't have the shape I presently have for the secondary hull if it's set more rearward because it really starts to look weird and not in a good way (in my opinion).

One day I just sketched the present idea for the hell of it. My first reaction was, "Well, that looks strange." But the more I looked at it I found something appealing in it. It was counter-intuitive and also gave the design something of an attitude. I kept playing with it in perspective sketches to find shape and proportion that looked integrated. I also made the fantail shape more prominent (something that had been done similarly on the Excelsior design way back in the '80s).

With every design there is (or should be) some sort of overall idea or ethic or aesthetic at work. I wanted something that was somewhat unconventional and unusual even while retaining some familiarity. I also wanted it to have a mixture of grace and strength. There are very few truly straight lines on this design. The trailing edge of the dorsal as well as the leading edge of the pylons follow very subtle arcs that mightn't be readily apparent to some. The leading edge of the dorsal as well as the trailing edge of the pylons each follow a more more noticeable curve.

Of course, I will be adding more detail as I progress, but I don't want to overdue it. I still like that streamlined look of the future we had back in the '50s, '60s and '70s. I've grown disenchanted with all the greebling and industrializing aesthetic that's become to go-to look for SF hardware including Trek. If I'm looking at far-future tech I want to see something of the exotic with a hint of alien element (alien as in beyond the familiar). I want a shape and finish that conveys highly advanced science and materials as well as a sense of wonder.

I'm also trying to address some criticisms I have of previous designs. There is one criticism I have of the TMP refit that I don't think works as well as the TOS design. In profile the new nacelles and swept pylons look very good. But I don't like the slimness of the nacelles as seen from above (it seems less noticeable as seen from lower angles. Also (to me) the visual balance of the nacelles and pylons looks off when viewed from higher three-quarter like angles or lower angles from the rear. Perhaps to has something to do with the pylons narrowing so much where they attach to the secondary hull. It looks flimsy. I think it looks flimsier that the same thing on the TOS E Weird.

The other thing about the TMP stardrive section is how the pylons attach to the nacelles. They don't connect at a natural angle, but then they can't really because the nacelles are too slim (as seen from above, below or from the front or rear). It bugs me even though I like so much else about the refit.
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Old April 14 2014, 04:43 AM   #83
Warped9
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Arrgh!!!

I just discovered a serious flaw in the support pylon I built. And it's something I can't easily fix. So after spending about a day's worth of work making it I've had to scrap the whole component and start again from scratch. Well, almost from scratch as I have all the essential dimensions as well as the basic pattern. But from that I have to rebuild it all over again.

It's not a complete loss because I discovered some small things I didn't care for and now I can modify them more to my liking.
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Old April 15 2014, 12:28 AM   #84
publiusr
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Oh well.

Are you going to keep that very broad lower sensor dome?
I liked the spare lines you had before you added the more elaborate bridge.

In terms of the lower saucer, I remember a bronze looking ENT-D study model with a feed horn in the deflector/sensor dish area, and a very broad, undetailed lower saucer--as if there were this huge passive detector there...
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Old April 15 2014, 12:38 AM   #85
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

publiusr wrote: View Post
Oh well.

Are you going to keep that very broad lower sensor dome?
I liked the spare lines you had before you added the more elaborate bridge.

In terms of the lower saucer, I remember a bronze looking ENT-D study model with a feed horn in the deflector/sensor dish area, and a very broad, undetailed lower saucer--as if there were this huge passive detector there...
Honestly I'd like to rethink the whole structure atop the saucer. It's okay, but it really doesn't seem to go with the rest of the design. The only part I really like about the current setup was enlargening the trubolift nub into the upper sensor array with the lozenge shaped dome. I want something that looks good not only in profile view, but from different angles as well.

I'm trying to think of something different than the usual sensor dome. I actually considered putting a ring of light near the base of the saucer. I'll think of something.

The devil really is in the details. I, too, find myself resisting/rethinking choices made almost by reflex. Trek ships have been designed a certain way for so long that it's a challenge to look at it differently even as you want to keep something of the familiar in the exercise. Even the hangar area I kept now has me thinking about how to do it just a little bit differntly while still keeping that half dome shape at the end.
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Old April 15 2014, 03:20 AM   #86
Warped9
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Major components in place (except for the impulse section. Fortunately I was able to rebuild my pylons better and more quickly than I did originally.



Before I start detailing I will be reconsidering the superstructure atop the saucer and some small tweaking of the hangar clamshell section.
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Old April 15 2014, 05:17 AM   #87
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
Oh well.

Are you going to keep that very broad lower sensor dome?
I liked the spare lines you had before you added the more elaborate bridge.

In terms of the lower saucer, I remember a bronze looking ENT-D study model with a feed horn in the deflector/sensor dish area, and a very broad, undetailed lower saucer--as if there were this huge passive detector there...
Honestly I'd like to rethink the whole structure atop the saucer. It's okay, but it really doesn't seem to go with the rest of the design. The only part I really like about the current setup was enlargening the trubolift nub into the upper sensor array with the lozenge shaped dome. I want something that looks good not only in profile view, but from different angles as well.

I'm trying to think of something different than the usual sensor dome. I actually considered putting a ring of light near the base of the saucer. I'll think of something.

The devil really is in the details. I, too, find myself resisting/rethinking choices made almost by reflex. Trek ships have been designed a certain way for so long that it's a challenge to look at it differently even as you want to keep something of the familiar in the exercise. Even the hangar area I kept now has me thinking about how to do it just a little bit differntly while still keeping that half dome shape at the end.
I've been working on a "jet-age" aesthetic rebuild of the NX, and I've been facing much the same issue.

One of my biggest problems was keeping the general configuration without making the design seem either more advanced or something that's not different enough to justify being a predecessor; the latter of which is something that plagues Drexler's NX Refit.

All I can say without derailing the thread is that whatever you decide on, make it work for your design first, and throw Trek convention out the window if it interferes.
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Old April 15 2014, 06:43 AM   #88
Mytran
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Great project, always fascinating to see how these things evolve.

What surprises me is just how similar the Secondary Hull looks to the TMP (bottom left & right pics, above). The differing lengths are completely hidden! It shows what interesting camera shots could be possible, yet this is something that you could only find out in 3-D modelling.

Looking forward to more...
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Old April 15 2014, 07:00 AM   #89
Warped9
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

I'm looking forward to when I start adding colour and windows and lights and then shadowing and setting it in space scenes. I'm gratified it looks much as I envisioned it when I did my first perspective sketches. At the moment we can see the pure form of the design without the detailing that can distract our eyes as well as accent the overall shape.

The two features that are the most unconventional are the extreme fantail cutout and the secondary hull protruding so far forward of the dorsal. What it does do is centralize a lot of the ships mass.

This design grew partly out of an exercise in considering a conjectural refit for the TOS E. I've never really cared for the Phase II version and while I like the TMP refit I still prefer the TOS original as a whole. My conjectural idea was to take the TOS design and do a refit that I felt worked more convincingly as actually being the same ship as well as address some of the criticisms I have of the TMP refit design.

From that conjecture came the notion of redesigning the ship from scratch as if making a new up-to-date restart of TOS. The design I'm building came about several years ago and before news of the Abrams films became known.

I think there's a hint of alien influence in this design, which makes sense in terms of a ship meant to represent the entire Federation and not just Earth. Other influences besides human could have gone into the design.
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Old April 15 2014, 06:51 PM   #90
beamMe
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Because of the flat top and bottom of the nacelles (which look really good), it looks quite odd how the pylons connect to them when viewed from the side.
Especially on the middle-right view the pylons look somehow twisted.
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