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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old April 25 2014, 02:17 AM   #76
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

Agree with you on 3, 5, and 6, but on the others you're insane. Okay, Odo's inability to mimic a human face was a plot device and an excuse to give him makeup that didn't make him look too human. He was one of the most interesting and different characters in the show, one of the most competent, principled and conflicted characters in Trek.
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Old April 25 2014, 04:30 AM   #77
GalaxyX
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Agree with you on 3, 5, and 6, but on the others you're insane. Okay, Odo's inability to mimic a human face was a plot device and an excuse to give him makeup that didn't make him look too human. He was one of the most interesting and different characters in the show, one of the most competent, principled and conflicted characters in Trek.
I think it would have worked better if they have had Odo slowly learn how to create a better face, and not have the other changelings in the show "struggle" with the same issue.

By the end of the show he could have gotten it pat down that his face looks fully humanoid.

Personally I think they just wanted to hide Rene Auberjonois' age with the make up, with the added bonus of making him look "alien". Hence, gimmick.

And also I forgot to add that he can morph into creatures that are 100 times smaller than his humanoid size (where does all that mass disappear to?) and he can morph into energy beings and fog (What is he, a nanobot cloud?)

As for his character conflict, he did, as an actor, an excellent job in portraying a horribly written character. What's his primary motivation for rejecting his people? He's infatuated with Kira. This is even stated several times during the show. Basically he wanted to morph a dick and stick it inside Kira, and this kept him from switching sides. If Kira was not a factor, he would have abandoned the solids and sided with whatever his people wanted to do.

Rene however, took what he was given and added depth to is as the great actor he is, so he turned an epic fail into a bare win.
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Old April 25 2014, 06:15 PM   #78
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

I agree with your assessment of the actor's makeup decisions, but not your assessment of the writing.

Kira was not the only reason Odo did not rejoin the Founders. Sure, it was the clinching reason, but he also strongly disagreed with their militaristic dominance of solids. If it weren't for Kira, he would have gone to his homeworld, but he would have tried to spread the gospel of peace just as he finally did at the end of the series. And what makes you think Odo's interest in Kira is sexual rather than just intimately personal? Odo seemed to enjoy sexual relationships for the personal intimacy and closeness, rather than the physical pleasure.

And if you're bothered by Odo's shapeshifting not respecting conservation of mass, I can't see how you can enjoy a single Star Trek episode. Terrible science is a Star Trek constant, regardless of which one you're watching.
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Old April 25 2014, 07:07 PM   #79
mendelin
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

GalaxyX wrote: View Post

1. Odo was useless. The acting was phenomenal, but the character as written was completely useless. His shape-shifting ability is just a gimmick that is hardly ever used properly. The whole idea that he can turn into anything but can't replicate a humanoid face is just as retarded as an Android that can't use contractions.


2. Jadzia Dax. I don't think Terry Farrell ever convinced me she was supposed to be this great wise old man. She just came across as an arrogant bitch for most of the show.
1. Odo was useless? Odo was the corner stone of all Dominion War plot.
As for his poor abilities to replicate humanoid face, it's a philosophical thing. Odo's goal was to explore humanity and understand what is it "to be human". He didn't fully morph into human because he didn't finish his exploration.
As for Odo's uselessness, "The drop becomes the ocean, the ocean becomes a drop". Odo was as much important to Changelings, as the whole Great Link. For Odo his people were as much important as his life for himself. Odo and Great Link are equal. So, his rejection of Great Link was a real deep conflict. He did it not for Kira, he did it due to his feelings of justice and his knowing of "solids".
Without Odo's presence on the station it would be impossible to show the other side of relationships between Changelings and humans. Such things as fear, jealousy were two-sided, and it was shown with the help of Odo.

2. Jadzia Dax was exactly what she supposed to be. Young, brave, lively, attractive woman. And "an arrogant bitch". Why not? She lived 7 (or near) lives, she is already have a great experience in various collisions in life. "To be this great wise old man" means to understand, that in life there is no thing of absolute great importance. All is come and gone, everything has it's begin and end and very short time to be actual and important. Jadzia acts as a child, because she knows the price of life, the true value of joy, happiness and new discoveries.

Last edited by mendelin; April 25 2014 at 07:24 PM.
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Old April 27 2014, 02:51 PM   #80
popcultureevil
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

Should have been more Bajoran sects/denominations. Maybe even one that sees Sisko's role in a different light, or has different customs regarding the Emissary's purpose. Kind of like how Catholics and Anglicans are both Christians, but see Jesus in a different light.

Jadzia was a shallow character. She only seemed to care about having fun and never took anything seriously. Ezri was better, in writing and development.

The way some characters were bitches/dicks to the Grand Negus should have been court-martial offences. OK, they didn't like Ferengi, but then any foreign head of state/government must be accorded respect, not scoffing or similar. Ben is my favourite Captain (along with Picard) but even he took part in this, which is unbecoming him as a CO of an important installation.
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Old April 29 2014, 04:46 PM   #81
Drusilla
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I agree with your assessment of the actor's makeup decisions, but not your assessment of the writing.

Kira was not the only reason Odo did not rejoin the Founders. Sure, it was the clinching reason, but he also strongly disagreed with their militaristic dominance of solids. If it weren't for Kira, he would have gone to his homeworld, but he would have tried to spread the gospel of peace just as he finally did at the end of the series. And what makes you think Odo's interest in Kira is sexual rather than just intimately personal? Odo seemed to enjoy sexual relationships for the personal intimacy and closeness, rather than the physical pleasure.
Not only that, but it's not as if the Founders were always there, welcoming him with open arms. They were the ones who abandoned him (and the rest of the hundred) to the universe, they often treated him with pity for his attachment to the solids, they turned him into a human, they went to great lengths to deceive him multiple times, and the female Founder left him behind on DS9 when Sisko retook the station.

Not exactly the most welcoming family dynamic to go home to. Though Kira was Odo's primary motivation for staying on DS9, I always figured his reasons for not returning home were more complex.

Last edited by Drusilla; April 29 2014 at 05:14 PM.
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Old May 10 2014, 06:22 PM   #82
maquisleader
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

Jake Sisko, he looked like an anorexic goof. I was really hoping he'd get killed in the episode with Tuco Sulamanca.
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Old May 11 2014, 05:25 PM   #83
Keith1701
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I don't get the hate about Ezri. She was a nice character and an interesting idea that helped give things another little shake up in S7. Yes, she was give a few episodes to develop and flesh out her character, but she didn't take over the series (like another female added to another Trek show). I personally would've liked the character to be male, just to have them really mess with the likes of Worf, Bashir and Quark.
I would have liked the next host to have been Odo:



That would screw with people in more ways than one.
This was a dumb episode.
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Old May 12 2014, 04:24 AM   #84
GalaxyX
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

Keith1701 wrote: View Post
Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I don't get the hate about Ezri. She was a nice character and an interesting idea that helped give things another little shake up in S7. Yes, she was give a few episodes to develop and flesh out her character, but she didn't take over the series (like another female added to another Trek show). I personally would've liked the character to be male, just to have them really mess with the likes of Worf, Bashir and Quark.
I would have liked the next host to have been Odo:



That would screw with people in more ways than one.
This was a dumb episode.
The episode was shit (as most Jadzia episodes were). However, Rene Auberjonois' acting was phenomenal. Really the saving grace of the episode.
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Old May 12 2014, 06:58 AM   #85
Warbird
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

The way they killed off Kurn (Worf's brother) or rather erased his memory because Gowron and Worf became enemies after Worf refused to join the attack on Cardassia. But later became friends again through general Martok.

They could have had some really good episodes with Kurn during the dominion war.
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Old May 15 2014, 08:56 AM   #86
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

Warbird wrote: View Post
The way they killed off Kurn (Worf's brother) or rather erased his memory because Gowron and Worf became enemies after Worf refused to join the attack on Cardassia. But later became friends again through general Martok.

They could have had some really good episodes with Kurn during the dominion war.
The memory wipe starts to break down and he gets flashes of his previous life, in a way that terrifies him as he begins to wonder if he is some kind of Dominion agent. But as his condition worsens, he is drawn to DS9, where he believes he has to take out the man who fills his thoughts: Lieutenant Commander Worf...
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Old May 16 2014, 03:10 AM   #87
Finn
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Warbird wrote: View Post
The way they killed off Kurn (Worf's brother) or rather erased his memory because Gowron and Worf became enemies after Worf refused to join the attack on Cardassia. But later became friends again through general Martok.

They could have had some really good episodes with Kurn during the dominion war.
The memory wipe starts to break down and he gets flashes of his previous life, in a way that terrifies him as he begins to wonder if he is some kind of Dominion agent. But as his condition worsens, he is drawn to DS9, where he believes he has to take out the man who fills his thoughts: Lieutenant Commander Worf...
Nice
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Old May 16 2014, 08:12 PM   #88
Worf'sParmach
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Warbird wrote: View Post
The way they killed off Kurn (Worf's brother) or rather erased his memory because Gowron and Worf became enemies after Worf refused to join the attack on Cardassia. But later became friends again through general Martok.

They could have had some really good episodes with Kurn during the dominion war.
The memory wipe starts to break down and he gets flashes of his previous life, in a way that terrifies him as he begins to wonder if he is some kind of Dominion agent. But as his condition worsens, he is drawn to DS9, where he believes he has to take out the man who fills his thoughts: Lieutenant Commander Worf...
When this episode aired, I just KNEW we'd be seeing Kurn again in a manner very much like what you describe. Especially since we have been told before that Klingon physiology is very good at healing itself. I wonder if this was the plan, but that they just couldn't make it work with Tony Todd...
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Old May 20 2014, 11:40 AM   #89
KMCarr
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

That the other Founders looked just like Odo (hair, face, ears). I mean, come on, 'see Odo, this is how you do ears, just how long is it going to take you to figure it out?'

The space station was evacuated way too many times. If you did that in real life, the space station would never have anyone coming there because it's always being evacuated.

DS9 didn't seem to be very deep space since it never seemed to take anyone very long to get there from anywhere else (like Earth for example).

Jadzia was supposed to be the most sought-after woman on DS9 and yet guys never seemed to pursue her except for Bashir.

The admiral in the last season seemed to always be subordinate to Sisko.

Last edited by KMCarr; May 20 2014 at 11:54 AM.
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Old May 20 2014, 12:21 PM   #90
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Things you thought were stupid on ds9.

That the other Founders looked just like Odo (hair, face, ears). I mean, come on, 'see Odo, this is how you do ears, just how long is it going to take you to figure it out?'
I don't understand this complaint. I stand. My distant ancestors are called homo erectus--man who is upright. Yet no one thinks I must necessarily have perfect posture, or stand incessantly for more than twenty hours. No one thinks less of me if I take cars or trains rather than walk, or don't enter marathons. Humans must learn and perfect skills, even those that are arguably common. It could hold true for other intelligent beings.
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