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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old March 22 2014, 04:49 AM   #61
Nerys Myk
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
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Why bother making it Trek at all if it doesn't use any of what makes Trek different?
There, you see, is the question. What makes Star Trek distinctive? It sure as hell has to be more than continuity porn.

For a start I'd say what stories it tells and how it tells them.
Its not about continuity porn, but didnt you get the same goosebumps I did when Sisko shook Picards hand tenuously while reliving Jennifer's death at Wolf 359? That was multi-series continuity and it was so easy to induce suspension of disbelief...
It was cringe worthy, the Saratoga had a different registry number than the previous mentions. They just don't pay attention to details.
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Old March 22 2014, 04:55 AM   #62
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

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I'd rather have a Romulan ale with Pine's Kirk. And while Shatner's Kirk is older and more experienced than Pine's (when we first see both on screen), I'd say the fact that Pine's Kirk was faced with a no-win scenario much sooner in life than Shatner's, means Pine's Kirk will, ultimately, be more mature and wise than Shatner's. Therefore, I'd trust Pine's Kirk more than Shatner's.
I must step back and remind myself that 'to each his own'. I don't get your opinion, but I respect you for saying it. The man who risked life and limb for Starfleet and Earth, and lost everything in the process, deserves my respect ( add to that the fact that there was no woman in the galaxy he couldnt seduce).


He lost a son for Spock, he lost a ship for his career, he lost himself and his future for a life in space that would ultimately lead to an empty death. He was a champion of humanity, Pine's Kirk would run like a scared little girl after meeting the Guardian of Forever, and would cry into his pancakes after losing Edith Keeler.

Pine's Kirk is nothin. Shatner's Kirk is a champion of the Federation. His resume exudes heroism. He is Humanity's missing link from chaos and uncertainty, to honor and success. Pine's Kirk couldn't hold a candle to the Shat. Second Star to the right, and straight on till morning...
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Old March 22 2014, 05:01 AM   #63
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Ancient Mariner wrote: View Post
I'd rather have a Romulan ale with Pine's Kirk (dude knows how to throw down in a bar, after all). And while Shatner's Kirk is older and more experienced than Pine's (when we first see both on screen), I'd say the fact that Pine's Kirk was faced with a no-win scenario much sooner in life than Shatner's, means Pine's Kirk will, ultimately, be more mature and wise than Shatner's. Therefore, I'd trust Pine's Kirk more than Shatner's.
This is so messed up it's mind boggling.
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Old March 22 2014, 05:02 AM   #64
Victory Is Life
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Ancient Mariner wrote: View Post
I'd rather have a Romulan ale with Pine's Kirk (dude knows how to throw down in a bar, after all). And while Shatner's Kirk is older and more experienced than Pine's (when we first see both on screen), I'd say the fact that Pine's Kirk was faced with a no-win scenario much sooner in life than Shatner's, means Pine's Kirk will, ultimately, be more mature and wise than Shatner's. Therefore, I'd trust Pine's Kirk more than Shatner's.
This is so messed up it's mind boggling.
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Old March 22 2014, 05:03 AM   #65
Nerys Myk
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

He lost a son for Spock, he lost a ship for his career, he lost himself and his future for a life in space that would ultimately lead to an empty death. He was a champion of humanity, Pine's Kirk would run like a scared little girl after meeting the Guardian of Forever, and would cry into his pancakes after losing Edith Keeler.
What exactly do you base this on? Is there a scene in either film that shows Kirk reacting this way ?
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Old March 22 2014, 05:04 AM   #66
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Ancient Mariner wrote: View Post
I'd rather have a Romulan ale with Pine's Kirk (dude knows how to throw down in a bar, after all). And while Shatner's Kirk is older and more experienced than Pine's (when we first see both on screen), I'd say the fact that Pine's Kirk was faced with a no-win scenario much sooner in life than Shatner's, means Pine's Kirk will, ultimately, be more mature and wise than Shatner's. Therefore, I'd trust Pine's Kirk more than Shatner's.
This is so messed up it's mind boggling.
It's the truth.

ETA:
Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Shatner's Kirk is ... Humanity's missing link
Oh my GOD! I see it now!





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Old March 22 2014, 05:11 AM   #67
Victory Is Life
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
He lost a son for Spock, he lost a ship for his career, he lost himself and his future for a life in space that would ultimately lead to an empty death. He was a champion of humanity, Pine's Kirk would run like a scared little girl after meeting the Guardian of Forever, and would cry into his pancakes after losing Edith Keeler.
What exactly do you base this on? Is there a scene in either film that shows Kirk reacting this way ?

I need only compare Kirk's fistfight with Commander Kruge in STIII vs Kirks fight with Nero and his ROmulan grunts in the first reboot. Shat's Kirk smashed his fucking face and marooned him to a death in the volcanic abyss of the Genesis Planet, while Pine's Kirk got beaten senseless by Nero and he had his Rommie goons finish him off, the only reason Pine's Kirk was successful was that the Romulan was abjectly careless.

Pine's Kirk reminds me of Archer, the shadow of a Captain that could do better. Shat's kirk pulled out all the stops to win. He was the human spirit incarnate. You can never compare Pine to Shat. John Wayne would utterly obliterate Nicholas Cage. Nuff Said.
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Old March 22 2014, 05:17 AM   #68
Victory Is Life
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
He lost a son for Spock, he lost a ship for his career, he lost himself and his future for a life in space that would ultimately lead to an empty death. He was a champion of humanity, Pine's Kirk would run like a scared little girl after meeting the Guardian of Forever, and would cry into his pancakes after losing Edith Keeler.
What exactly do you base this on? Is there a scene in either film that shows Kirk reacting this way ?

I need only compare Kirk's fistfight with Commander Kruge in STIII vs Kirks fight with Nero and his ROmulan grunts in the first reboot. Shat's Kirk smashed his fucking face and marooned him to a death in the volcanic abyss of the Genesis Planet, while Pine's Kirk got beaten senseless by Nero and he had his Rommie goons finish him off, the only reason Pine's Kirk was successful was that the Romulan was abjectly careless.

Pine's Kirk reminds me of Archer, the shadow of a Captain that could do better. Shat's kirk pulled out all the stops to win. He was the human spirit incarnate. You can never compare Pine to Shat. John Wayne would utterly obliterate Nicholas Cage. Nuff Said.
I get it, I'm being trolled.
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Old March 22 2014, 05:21 AM   #69
Nerys Myk
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
He lost a son for Spock, he lost a ship for his career, he lost himself and his future for a life in space that would ultimately lead to an empty death. He was a champion of humanity, Pine's Kirk would run like a scared little girl after meeting the Guardian of Forever, and would cry into his pancakes after losing Edith Keeler.
What exactly do you base this on? Is there a scene in either film that shows Kirk reacting this way ?

I need only compare Kirk's fistfight with Commander Kruge in STIII vs Kirks fight with Nero and his ROmulan grunts in the first reboot. Shat's Kirk smashed his fucking face and marooned him to a death in the volcanic abyss of the Genesis Planet, while Pine's Kirk got beaten senseless by Nero and he had his Rommie goons finish him off, the only reason Pine's Kirk was successful was that the Romulan was abjectly careless.

Pine's Kirk reminds me of Archer, the shadow of a Captain that could do better. Shat's kirk pulled out all the stops to win. He was the human spirit incarnate. You can never compare Pine to Shat. John Wayne would utterly obliterate Nicholas Cage. Nuff Said.
Doesn't answer my question.

I'm not a fan of the Kirk we see in the TOS films. He's s caricature and a pale shadow of the man we see in the TV series.

Kirk is not a "John Wayne" character in either universe.
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Old March 22 2014, 05:22 AM   #70
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
What exactly do you base this on? Is there a scene in either film that shows Kirk reacting this way ?

I need only compare Kirk's fistfight with Commander Kruge in STIII vs Kirks fight with Nero and his ROmulan grunts in the first reboot. Shat's Kirk smashed his fucking face and marooned him to a death in the volcanic abyss of the Genesis Planet, while Pine's Kirk got beaten senseless by Nero and he had his Rommie goons finish him off, the only reason Pine's Kirk was successful was that the Romulan was abjectly careless.

Pine's Kirk reminds me of Archer, the shadow of a Captain that could do better. Shat's kirk pulled out all the stops to win. He was the human spirit incarnate. You can never compare Pine to Shat. John Wayne would utterly obliterate Nicholas Cage. Nuff Said.
I get it, I'm being trolled.
By yourself?
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Old March 22 2014, 05:26 AM   #71
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
I need only compare Kirk's fistfight with Commander Kruge in STIII vs Kirks fight with Nero and his ROmulan grunts in the first reboot. Shat's Kirk smashed his fucking face and marooned him to a death in the volcanic abyss of the Genesis Planet, while Pine's Kirk got beaten senseless by Nero and he had his Rommie goons finish him off, the only reason Pine's Kirk was successful was that the Romulan was abjectly careless.
Kruge was the epitome of careless. He had the Enterprise dead-to-rights, but granted it mercy out of sentiment. Then he sent the majority of his crew on a (doomed) boarding mission, leaving his own ship so undefended it was taken over by a handful (the merest pittance) of Starfleet officers.

As much as it pains me to say it (because I think Nero was a poor villain, overall), against Kirk, Kruge was more incompetent than Nero - because Kruge knew of Kirk, he knew Kirk's history and tactics. And he still lost when he had an overwhelming advantage.

In that film ShatKirk was far more lucky than PineKirk in Star Trek. At least PineKirk didn't lose his bloody ship.
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Old March 22 2014, 05:29 AM   #72
Victory Is Life
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
What exactly do you base this on? Is there a scene in either film that shows Kirk reacting this way ?

I need only compare Kirk's fistfight with Commander Kruge in STIII vs Kirks fight with Nero and his ROmulan grunts in the first reboot. Shat's Kirk smashed his fucking face and marooned him to a death in the volcanic abyss of the Genesis Planet, while Pine's Kirk got beaten senseless by Nero and he had his Rommie goons finish him off, the only reason Pine's Kirk was successful was that the Romulan was abjectly careless.

Pine's Kirk reminds me of Archer, the shadow of a Captain that could do better. Shat's kirk pulled out all the stops to win. He was the human spirit incarnate. You can never compare Pine to Shat. John Wayne would utterly obliterate Nicholas Cage. Nuff Said.
Doesn't answer my question.

I'm not a fan of the Kirk we see in the TOS films. He's s caricature and a pale shadow of the man we see in the TV series.

Kirk is not a "John Wayne" character in either universe.
You are trolling me.

ST 3:
Sarek: Forgive me, it is not here. I had assumed he mind-melded with you. It is the Vulcan way, when the body's end is near.
Kirk: We were separated... He couldn't touch me.
Sarek: I see. Then, everything he was... everything he knew... is lost.
[Sarek turns to go]
Kirk: Please wait. He would have found a way. If there were that much at stake, Spock would have found a way.
Sarek: Yes. But how?
Kirk: What if he joined with someone else?

Kirk risked everything for everyone, at his own detriment. I cant believe your inability to comprehend this. He was a hero, Pine was a zero.
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Old March 22 2014, 05:31 AM   #73
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Kirk risked everything for everyone, at his own detriment. I cant believe your inability to comprehend this. He was a hero, Pine was a zero.
^ PineKirk risked and actually sacrificed his own life for ship and crew. I can't believe you would continue to ignore this ...
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Old March 22 2014, 05:38 AM   #74
Victory Is Life
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Ancient Mariner wrote: View Post
Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Kirk risked everything for everyone, at his own detriment. I cant believe your inability to comprehend this. He was a hero, Pine was a zero.
^ PineKirk risked and actually sacrificed his own life for ship and crew. I can't believe you would continue to ignore this ...
I get it. I recognize it. But in TSFS Kirk DESTROYED his ship to save his crew, and exercised tremendous command ability to overcome the enemy. both tactically and intellectually. Case Closed. I cant believe that you people are arguing the vitures of Pine Kirk vs Shat Kirk. There is no contest.

Are you seriously kidding me? in 2009's Star Trek, I am reasonably certain that Shat Kirk would have stopped Vulcan's destruction. Thers no doubt, let's be clear, Kirk has done more for humanity that any Captain in Starfleet history. I believe that.
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Old March 22 2014, 05:42 AM   #75
Nerys Myk
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Victory Is Life wrote: View Post


I need only compare Kirk's fistfight with Commander Kruge in STIII vs Kirks fight with Nero and his ROmulan grunts in the first reboot. Shat's Kirk smashed his fucking face and marooned him to a death in the volcanic abyss of the Genesis Planet, while Pine's Kirk got beaten senseless by Nero and he had his Rommie goons finish him off, the only reason Pine's Kirk was successful was that the Romulan was abjectly careless.

Pine's Kirk reminds me of Archer, the shadow of a Captain that could do better. Shat's kirk pulled out all the stops to win. He was the human spirit incarnate. You can never compare Pine to Shat. John Wayne would utterly obliterate Nicholas Cage. Nuff Said.
Doesn't answer my question.

I'm not a fan of the Kirk we see in the TOS films. He's s caricature and a pale shadow of the man we see in the TV series.

Kirk is not a "John Wayne" character in either universe.
You are trolling me.

ST 3:
Sarek: Forgive me, it is not here. I had assumed he mind-melded with you. It is the Vulcan way, when the body's end is near.
Kirk: We were separated... He couldn't touch me.
Sarek: I see. Then, everything he was... everything he knew... is lost.
[Sarek turns to go]
Kirk: Please wait. He would have found a way. If there were that much at stake, Spock would have found a way.
Sarek: Yes. But how?
Kirk: What if he joined with someone else?

Kirk risked everything for everyone, at his own detriment. I cant believe your inability to comprehend this. He was a hero, Pine was a zero.
Yes, in that scene Kirk shows grief and regret over Spock's death. He wants his friend back. Not sure what this scene proves in regard to Pine's Kirk "crying into his pancakes" or running scared from the Guardian of Forever.
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