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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old March 22 2014, 02:42 AM   #16
Melakon
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

A Star Trek fan is not necessarily the best choice to produce Star Trek.
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Old March 22 2014, 02:44 AM   #17
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
TNG produced emmy nominated scripts. The Inner Light, TBOBW, Unification, etc. It has the best track record of shit to gold script quality ratio of any Trek series. Am I in a forum of Trek fans or deluded maniacs (no insult intended)?
I grew up with TNG and loved it as a kid, but with he exception of a few gems like "Yesterday's Enterprise", I find it virtually unwatchable now. TOS, Voyager and even Enterprise have better hit-to-miss ratios, IMO.
JJ Abrams essentially raped what we hold dear
I love what Abrams did with Star Trek. It brought the fun, excitement and lovable characters back - what made TOS great almost 50 years ago.

Turning the clock back to 1987 won't help anyone. The TNG Format™ was well and truly worn out by the time Enterprise was cancelled. TV has moved on, and any future Trek series needs to move with it.
Melakon wrote: View Post
A Star Trek fan is not necessarily the best choice to produce Star Trek.
Like Abrams, Harve Bennett (Executive Producer, STII-V) wasn't a Star Trek fan.
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Old March 22 2014, 02:49 AM   #18
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

To answer the OP's question a little more seriously: I'm not nearly as bullish on Abrams' vision as King Daniel and I like TNG just fine, but I agree with him that Trek needs to be move forward, not backward*.

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Old March 22 2014, 02:52 AM   #19
Victory Is Life
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
TNG produced emmy nominated scripts. The Inner Light, TBOBW, Unification, etc. It has the best track record of shit to gold script quality ratio of any Trek series. Am I in a forum of Trek fans or deluded maniacs (no insult intended)?
I grew up with TNG and loved it as a kid, but with he exception of a few gems like "Yesterday's Enterprise", I find it virtually unwatchable now. TOS, Voyager and even Enterprise have better hit-to-miss ratios, IMO.
JJ Abrams essentially raped what we hold dear
I love what Abrams did with Star Trek. It brought the fun, excitement and lovable characters back - what made TOS great almost 50 years ago.

Turning the clock back to 1987 won't help anyone. The TNG Format™ was well and truly worn out by the time Enterprise was cancelled. TV has moved on, and any future Trek series needs to move with it.
No way, I am by no means saying that we should replicate the inherent cheesiness of the late 80s early 90s, thats why they havent rebooted Seinfeld, it wouldn't work, but there are elements to that formula that are ageless, Q for example. Abrams did us a disservice. A monumental one. Kirk is a whining millennial maniac, a sign of the times, where tenuous professionalism and entitlement rule the day without neither the wherewithal nor the fortitude to command competently. Kirk of the past often rode by the seat of his pants, but he did so with panache, and almost 'john wayne'-like confidence.

He was a man's man, something that no longer exists. He went headlong into the abyss where angels feared to tread, and exuded victory, his demeanor always exuded confidence in his crew, while Abram's Kirk exudes stress, and uncertainty. The Abramsverse is entertaining stuff, but it isn't Trek, put the finest veneer on a third rate project, but to the untrained eye, it's still nothing but a polished turd.
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Old March 22 2014, 02:55 AM   #20
Victory Is Life
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
TNG produced emmy nominated scripts. The Inner Light, TBOBW, Unification, etc. It has the best track record of shit to gold script quality ratio of any Trek series. Am I in a forum of Trek fans or deluded maniacs (no insult intended)?
I grew up with TNG and loved it as a kid, but with he exception of a few gems like "Yesterday's Enterprise", I find it virtually unwatchable now. TOS, Voyager and even Enterprise have better hit-to-miss ratios, IMO.
JJ Abrams essentially raped what we hold dear
I love what Abrams did with Star Trek. It brought the fun, excitement and lovable characters back - what made TOS great almost 50 years ago.

Turning the clock back to 1987 won't help anyone. The TNG Format™ was well and truly worn out by the time Enterprise was cancelled. TV has moved on, and any future Trek series needs to move with it.
No way, I am by no means saying that we should replicate the inherent cheesiness of the late 80s early 90s, thats why they havent rebooted Seinfeld, it wouldn't work, but there are elements to that formula that are ageless, Q for example. Abrams did us a disservice. A monumental one. Kirk is a whining millennial maniac, a sign of the times, where tenuous professionalism and entitlement rule the day without neither the wherewithal nor the fortitude to command competently. Kirk of the past often rode by the seat of his pants, but he did so with panache, and almost 'john wayne'-like confidence.

He was a man's man, something that no longer exists. He went headlong into the abyss where angels feared to tread, and exuded victory, his demeanor always exuded confidence in his crew, while Abram's Kirk exudes stress, and uncertainty. The Abramsverse is entertaining stuff, but it isn't Trek, put the finest veneer on a third rate project, but to the untrained eye, it's still nothing but a polished turd.

I should have said ' to the trained eye', my mistake
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Old March 22 2014, 02:59 AM   #21
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

I counter by saying "The Inner Light" (an episode you cited as one of Trek's greatest) is not Star Trek. It's Picard growing old, having a family and learning to play the flute, and would have been better suited to the Hallmark Channel rather than shoehorned into Star Trek's world.

As for the new Kirk's characterizarion, I'm not sure where you got all this "whiny" and "entitlement" stuff from.
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Old March 22 2014, 03:00 AM   #22
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life: The main problem I have with NuTrek is that Abrams seemed afraid to be seen taking the material seriously. He's made both movies so far like a man embarrassed to be doing them and yearning to be making Star Wars, which AFAICT is exactly what he is. Their schlock factor is no accident, it's a deliberate choice, and I can see why some people are insulted by it; it's responsible for most of what isn't working about those movies.

However, he has at the very least proven that the Star Trek brand still has legs and, with some attention to spectacle and drama, can garner mainstream interest. In that sense saying he's done us a "monumental disservice" goes too far. He has reanimated Trek after years of its being basically stone dead. That's a service, even if it falls to someone else to actually revive it.

Owing to the signature flaw of AbramsTrek, though, I'm a hard sell on the proposition that the person to revive it is a career comedian.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:
I counter by saying "The Inner Light" (an episode you cited as one of Trek's greatest) is not Star Trek.
Aside from this being a preposterous statement, it's also a step away from citing rubber and glue. You're better than that.
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Old March 22 2014, 03:08 AM   #23
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

MacFarlane has to my knowledge no experience running a live action drama series and his animated sitcoms have shall we say run their course.

I'm not totally against the guy, the early years of Family Guy were some pretty funny stuff and Ted was pretty good movie. But running a Trek series? No, I don't think he'd be the right fit. At all.
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Old March 22 2014, 03:17 AM   #24
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Saying that a 'reanimated Trek' that is commercially succesful makes it viable is like telling Flava Flav in the 80's to hug a cop. Commercial success does not a succesful Trek make, at leat in my books. If you were worth your salt as a trekkie, then you would have found the simple statement of 'klingon warbird' in the 2009 reboot, as cringe-worthy as I did. That was an affront, to others, a minor one, but still an affront.

Spocks statement that a 'supernova threatened to destroy the galaxy' was also cringeworthy.

Being able to view the destruction of Vulcan from Delta Vega, also an affront.

Into Darkness:

Supposedly secret development of the USS Vengeance, while a garish model of said starship sits on his desk.

Khan Noonien Singh would never have the patience to develop weapons of war for Starfleet while the wellbeing of his crew was in question. he was never a slave, and would die rather than be one. He was a man in control.

Saltwater would never harm the Enterprise hull, and Scotty would have known that.

Starships in this movie traverse incredible distances in seconds, we are talking Warp factor 9.99999999999999999999995 or better, possibly closer to warp factor ten. In this respect, there is no respect to the perceived limitations of warp drive in the original universe.

And theres the military incompetence of the Klingons, unbelievable that they would find humans on their homeworld and not immediately dispatch their fleet to detect the source of the interlopers.

According to visuals, the Praxis disaster already happened, this is a lazy shout out to trekkies. In the original universe, this happened decades later, and required the collaboration of alpha quadrant powers to rectify, here, its a lazy pandering to idiots.

SHall we begin?
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Old March 22 2014, 03:25 AM   #25
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
Saying that a 'reanimated Trek' that is commercially succesful makes it viable is like telling Flava Flav in the 80's to hug a cop. Commercial success does not a succesful Trek make, at leat in my books.
Commercial success does, however, present the possibility of a better, future reboot happening that actually does play to the strengths of Trek and, more importantly, understands what originally distinguished it. Absent the actuality of really good Trek, I take solace in its possibility.

If you were worth your salt as a Trekkie, you would have asked me if I was worth my latinum as a Trekkie -- but regardless, you don't have to brandish a list of the films' flaws at me, I know them all too well and could add more besides. Like I said, the root problem from which all those other problems stem is that Abrams didn't want to take the material seriously. Which again, makes the proposition that a comedian is the best person to take over the televised franchise -- should one ever again exist -- doubtful.
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Old March 22 2014, 03:39 AM   #26
Victory Is Life
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

It was lazy, plain and simple, and we can all agree on that. With a budget like that and an immense knowledgabase to draw from (looking at you, Risk Sternbach and Michael Okuda) why the gaffs? its nonsensical. My only conclusion is that Abrams is arrogant and negotiated real tough with paramount. Too bad those on the Paramount side were too stupid to patiently wait for someone who would both restore loyalty to the brand AND remain true to the integrity of the franchise.
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Old March 22 2014, 03:46 AM   #27
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

For a Star Trek film or series restarting TOS I'd rather see someone emulating the likes of "The Doomsday Machine," "Balance Of Terror," "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "City On The Edge Of Forever" than the likes of "I, Mudd," "Spock's Brain," "Wink Of An Eye" and "And The Children Shall Lead."

Man, what I would give to see Star Trek done again in a way an adult could appreciate without embarrassment.
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Old March 22 2014, 03:48 AM   #28
Victory Is Life
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Warped9 wrote: View Post
For a Star Trek film or series restarting TOS I'd rather see someone emulating the likes of "The Doomsday Machine," "Balance Of Terror," "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "City On The Edge Of Forever" than the likes of "I, Mudd," "Spock's Brain," "Wink Of An Eye" and "And The Children Shall Lead."

Man, what I would give to see Star Trek done again in a way an adult could appreciate without embarrassment.
That's nice, me too. What does that have to do with my post?
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Old March 22 2014, 03:48 AM   #29
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
(looking at you, Risk Sternbach and Michael Okuda)
I'm not sure why you're singling out Sternbach and Okuda when they had nothing to do with the Abrams films.
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Old March 22 2014, 03:49 AM   #30
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Re: Seth Macfarlane Should Helm the Next Trek Series

Victory Is Life wrote: View Post
It was lazy, plain and simple, and we can all agree on that.
Well... some of us can.

My only conclusion is that Abrams is arrogant and negotiated real tough with paramount.
I don't expect Abrams negotiated the studio into anything they didn't already want to do; if you look at the trajectory the movies took up to Nemesis, they've been trying to make the Trek movie franchise into a mainstream action cash cow for ages. They spent the TNG crew's whole film run doing this, despite the fact the cast were totally unsuited to it.

Abrams' reboot is the fruition of that idea. They hired him because they were looking to make very clear their decision to break with the old franchise. I wouldn't be surprised if all his public statements about not being a Star Trek guy, not knowing what the fans thought and so on -- while perfectly sincere -- were played up specifically to make that break clear.

What I personally hope for is that they eventually realize that there's both money and credibility to be had in making intelligent action-adventure films that aren't dumbed-down or relying on cheap nostalgia. (Or, what Warped9 said.)
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