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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 19 2014, 10:08 PM   #16
BoredShipCapt'n
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Re: The Cage episode

Melakon wrote: View Post

Vina: Well I have to wear something. Don't I?
That's a line that didn't make it into The Menagerie, IIRC.
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Old March 19 2014, 10:10 PM   #17
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Re: The Cage episode

Stompy wrote: View Post
does anyone know if a version is available that has Throne's original voice? I saw Roddenberry's version in the 70's and would love to get a copy.
It's not been made available; only Roddenberry's old B&W print still exists, and there's no word on his estate's plans for it. Personally, I think they owe it to history to make it available because the color reconstructions are still incomplete in several minor ways, including the alteration of Throne's voice.

Anyway, here's the audio of Throne's unaltered voice (audience-perspective recording).

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Old March 20 2014, 02:00 AM   #18
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Re: The Cage episode

scotpens wrote: View Post
Funny, it never occurred to me until just now that Vina might well have kicked the bucket in the 13 years since Pike was captured by the Talosians. Her real age would have been at least her early 40s when "The Cage" takes place, and her body was basically a jury rig.
I agree. When you think about it, Vina was almost certainly a-goner by the time Pike returns in a wheelchair. The Talosians wanted a slave plantation and ended up running a nursing home.

Regarding Pike, I think of him as one of the unluckiest non-extras in the series.

- First he gets 100-percent disabled for a risky heroic act, where Kirk routinely gets away unhurt and covered in glory.

- Then Pike gets dropped off on Talos IV and the Enterprise leaves him there-- with nobody realizing that the Talosians' electrical outlets are not compatible with the re-charger plug on Pike's wheelchair.

- Finally, just a few weeks later, the Enterprise discovers spores on Omicron Ceti III that could have cured Pike altogether. But they can't return to Talos IV, and even if they did, Pike's dependency on his now-failed life-support chair means he is probably dead. The Talosians are technologically inept according to Vina's description: they've forgotten how to repair their own machinery.
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Old March 20 2014, 08:46 PM   #19
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Re: The Cage episode

Stompy wrote: View Post
does anyone know if a version is available that has Throne's original voice? I saw Roddenberry's version in the 70's and would love to get a copy.
Not that I know of. The 1986 black and white/color hybrid version keeps the original voice in the black and white parts (not too many lines).

Some fan brought a tape recorder to a 1982 screening of the black and white print. The less-than-acceptable result was synched with color footage here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eB6ZelxXTA
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Old March 21 2014, 03:39 PM   #20
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Re: The Cage episode

BillJ wrote: View Post
Why not watch both?
Right. Try them both at least once.
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Old March 21 2014, 03:43 PM   #21
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Re: The Cage episode

Melakon wrote: View Post
And by the end of "Menagerie", 13 years after the Talos IV mission, the Talosians still haven't bothered to repair the elevator.
Well, Vina DID say that they "Forgot how to repair the machines left behind by their ancestors".

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Old March 21 2014, 06:51 PM   #22
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Re: The Cage episode

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
I think Spock only looks bad because of the execution of the idea and not the idea itself. It’s not Roddenberry’s best dialog and really makes Spock look fairly cowardly. Had Spock looked more genuinely torn over the decision, it would have played more strongly. As it stands, “…we’re leaving!” conveys a negative message.

Say he said something like, “This is the acting captain speaking. Considering the threat posed by the Talosians, and Captain Pike’s standing order, we have no other choice. We are breaking orbit and will return with reinforcements. All decks, prepare for hyper drive!” Boom, Spock now is no longer running; he’s going to get help. Futile mission, maybe, but still better than “feets don’t fail me now!”

I agree, aside from the ending, the trims were well chosen. They are very rough around the edges. However, the scene of the Talosian’s pillaging the memory banks and Spock’s “they’ve decided to swat us” is fricking amazing. It almost makes up for the previous scene.
Also, remember at the time the original version of "The Cage" was written, Vulcans WERE NOT cold and logical. Spock was supposed t be more emotional and hot-headed in contrast to "Number One's" cold/analytical/computer-like emotional state. <-- This aspect was added to the "Mr. Spock" character and Vulcans as a species AFTER the "Number One" character was dropped from the cast. So, in that context, Spock's actions make perfect sense for the character at the time it was written/filmed.
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Old March 21 2014, 08:06 PM   #23
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Re: The Cage episode

Yeah, I get that, but the rest of the ship was made up of humans, too. He still could have played it less nervous. Bring third in command and all....
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Old March 24 2014, 12:30 AM   #24
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Re: The Cage episode

scotpens wrote:

Funny, it never occurred to me until just now that Vina might well have kicked the bucket in the 13 years since Pike was captured by the Talosians. Her real age would have been at least her early 40s when "The Cage" takes place, and her body was basically a jury rig.
It is weird and tragic that Jeff Hunter and Susan Oliver both died relatively young (Hunter was 43 and Oliver 58).
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Last edited by Push The Button; March 24 2014 at 05:06 AM.
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Old March 24 2014, 12:43 AM   #25
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Re: The Cage episode

Wow! I did not know that Susan Oliver died at 58. I thought she was still around, doing conventions and whatnot. I know she went on to become something of a director, too. I wonder if she had been an inspiration to Roxann Dawson, at all?
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Old March 24 2014, 03:19 AM   #26
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Re: The Cage episode

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Wow! I did not know that Susan Oliver died at 58. I thought she was still around, doing conventions and whatnot. I know she went on to become something of a director, too. I wonder if she had been an inspiration to Roxann Dawson, at all?
The Green Girl documentary -- Link

Susan was a founding member of the AFI's directing workshop for women. She directed one episode of MASH and an episode of Trapper John, M.D.

As most of us Trek geeks probably know, she was also an accomplished airplane pilot. Any beautiful babe who can fly a Learjet is my kind of woman.

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Old March 24 2014, 03:40 AM   #27
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Re: The Cage episode

It's too bad she never directed a TNG, though her health might have already been failing by then.
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Old March 24 2014, 04:09 AM   #28
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Re: The Cage episode

Push The Button, you've got me saying something that scotpens actually said.
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Old March 24 2014, 05:05 AM   #29
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Re: The Cage episode

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Push The Button, you've got me saying something that scotpens actually said.
Sorry about that, I do most of my web stuff on my iPhone now, which isn't the same as using a mouse and a real keyboard.
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Old March 24 2014, 07:21 AM   #30
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Re: The Cage episode

Push The Button wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Push The Button, you've got me saying something that scotpens actually said.
Sorry about that, I do most of my web stuff on my iPhone now, which isn't the same as using a mouse and a real keyboard.
No problem. It can be easy to mess up quote tags, period. Thanks for fixing.
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