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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 19 2014, 11:44 AM   #1
evangelist6589
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The Cage episode

I have never seen this one from start to finish except for the clips in the 2 parter from season 1. My season 3 DVD set has 2 versions of this episode so which one should I watch? Thanks..
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Old March 19 2014, 02:43 PM   #2
BillJ
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Re: The Cage episode

Why not watch both?
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Old March 19 2014, 04:29 PM   #3
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Re: The Cage episode

I prefer the restored version.

In fairness most of "The Cage" can be seen in "The Menagerie" and what's dropped is largely inconsequential. Two scenes in particular are dropped from "The Menagerie" and I can see why.

The first is Pike's commenting on having women on the bridge. It really doesn't make sense even when it was filmed because other women can be seen on the bridge besides Number One. The second scene shows Spock taking command and ordering the ship to break orbit to escape. This does make Spock look bad and it's easy to see why it wouldn't be included in "The Menagerie."

Of course, the entirety of "The Cage" couldn't fit into the alloted running time so it only make sense that the footage dropped would be that not really serving the story.

Other than those two scenes I mention it's then mostly very small trims.
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Old March 19 2014, 04:33 PM   #4
Galileo7
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Re: The Cage episode

BillJ wrote: View Post
Why not watch both?
Agree.
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Old March 19 2014, 05:04 PM   #5
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Re: The Cage episode

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I prefer the restored version.

In fairness most of "The Cage" can be seen in "The Menagerie" and what's dropped is largely inconsequential. Two scenes in particular are dropped from "The Menagerie" and I can see why.

The first is Pike's commenting on having women on the bridge. It really doesn't make sense even when it was filmed because other women can be seen on the bridge besides Number One. The second scene shows Spock taking command and ordering the ship to break orbit to escape. This does make Spock look bad and it's easy to see why it wouldn't be included in "The Menagerie."

Of course, the entirety of "The Cage" couldn't fit into the alloted running time so it only make sense that the footage dropped would be that not really serving the story.

Other than those two scenes I mention it's then mostly very small trims.
The end of "The Cage" is different from the end shown in "The Menagerie". That's neither an inconsequential change nor a small trim. In "The Menagerie" the final footage of Vina is used in another way.

If Spock looks bad trying to hightail it away from Talos IV, then Starfleet must look positively awful enforcing a death penalty against returning.
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Old March 19 2014, 05:46 PM   #6
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Re: The Cage episode

I think Spock only looks bad because of the execution of the idea and not the idea itself. It’s not Roddenberry’s best dialog and really makes Spock look fairly cowardly. Had Spock looked more genuinely torn over the decision, it would have played more strongly. As it stands, “…we’re leaving!” conveys a negative message.

Say he said something like, “This is the acting captain speaking. Considering the threat posed by the Talosians, and Captain Pike’s standing order, we have no other choice. We are breaking orbit and will return with reinforcements. All decks, prepare for hyper drive!” Boom, Spock now is no longer running; he’s going to get help. Futile mission, maybe, but still better than “feets don’t fail me now!”

I agree, aside from the ending, the trims were well chosen. They are very rough around the edges. However, the scene of the Talosian’s pillaging the memory banks and Spock’s “they’ve decided to swat us” is fricking amazing. It almost makes up for the previous scene.
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Old March 19 2014, 06:15 PM   #7
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Re: The Cage episode

Actually the ending depends on perspective. In the original Pike sees Vina with an illusion of himself before he beams up to the ship. In "The Menagerie" this same scene is shown, but it's seen from Kirk's perspective on the briefing room viewscreen. It's the same scene, but from different perspectives.
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Old March 19 2014, 06:33 PM   #8
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Re: The Cage episode

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Actually the ending depends on perspective. In the original Pike sees Vina with an illusion of himself before he beams up to the ship. In "The Menagerie" this same scene is shown, but it's seen from Kirk's perspective on the briefing room viewscreen. It's the same scene, but from different perspectives.
No.

In "The Cage," it's the real Vina in her illusion body with a total Pike illusion.

In "The Menagerie," it's the real Pike in his new illusion body with either the real Vina in her illusion body or a total Vina illusion, if she's dead by then.

It's not simply a change of perspective. It's a fundamentally different use of the footage that changes its entire meaning. That change in ending is one of the most ingenious aspects of "The Menagerie." It works also because the footage is taken out of the "Cage" flashback and inserted in the end of "The Menagerie" as a transmission from the present, of the Keeper showing Kirk what is becoming of Pike.
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Old March 19 2014, 06:35 PM   #9
Warped9
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Re: The Cage episode

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Actually the ending depends on perspective. In the original Pike sees Vina with an illusion of himself before he beams up to the ship. In "The Menagerie" this same scene is shown, but it's seen from Kirk's perspective on the briefing room viewscreen. It's the same scene, but from different perspectives.
No.

In "The Cage," it's the real Vina in her illusion body with a total Pike illusion.

In "The Menagerie," it's the real Pike in his new illusion body with either the real Vina in her illusion body or a total Vina illusion, if she's dead by then.

It's not simply a change of perspective. It's a fundamentally different use of the footage that changes its entire meaning. That change in ending is one of the most ingenious aspects of "The Menagerie."
The point is it's a mtter of perspective. They used the same scene for two different points of perspective.
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Old March 19 2014, 07:02 PM   #10
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Re: The Cage episode

And by the end of "Menagerie", 13 years after the Talos IV mission, the Talosians still haven't bothered to repair the elevator.
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Old March 19 2014, 07:10 PM   #11
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Re: The Cage episode

Melakon wrote: View Post
And by the end of "Menagerie", 13 years after the Talos IV mission, the Talosians still haven't bothered to repair the elevator.
Well that is why they needed someone to be their hands and rebuild their civilization.
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Old March 19 2014, 07:22 PM   #12
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Re: The Cage episode

If "The Cage" were made today though, I imagine Pike's Vina Fantasies might have been a bit more explicit.

Pike: And dressed you in the same metal fabric they wear?
Vina: Well I have to wear something. Don't I?
Pike: That's a good idea.

(Vina's clothes disappear.)
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Old March 19 2014, 07:26 PM   #13
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Re: The Cage episode

Melakon wrote: View Post
And by the end of "Menagerie", 13 years after the Talos IV mission, the Talosians still haven't bothered to repair the elevator.
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Old March 19 2014, 09:32 PM   #14
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Re: The Cage episode

does anyone know if a version is available that has Throne's original voice? I saw Roddenberry's version in the 70's and would love to get a copy.
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Old March 19 2014, 09:57 PM   #15
scotpens
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Re: The Cage episode

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
In "The Cage," it's the real Vina in her illusion body with a total Pike illusion.

In "The Menagerie," it's the real Pike in his new illusion body with either the real Vina in her illusion body or a total Vina illusion, if she's dead by then.
In the original pilot, the Keeper's final words to Capt. Pike are: "She has an illusion and you have reality. May you find your way as pleasant."

For the two-parter, Malachi Throne recorded the Keeper's address to Capt. Kirk, which ends with: "Captain Pike has an illusion and you have reality. May you find your way as pleasant." No mention of whether Vina (with her illusion of youth and beauty) is actually there or not.

Funny, it never occurred to me until just now that Vina might well have kicked the bucket in the 13 years since Pike was captured by the Talosians. Her real age would have been at least her early 40s when "The Cage" takes place, and her body was basically a jury rig.
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