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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Tower of Babel.
Outstanding 15 23.44%
Above Average 29 45.31%
Average 19 29.69%
Below Average 1 1.56%
Poor 0 0%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 2 2014, 12:27 PM   #91
Jarvisimo
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I really enjoyed this one - more than the first. I'm liking the increasing complexity of this series, and the many concurrent plots.

The Orions felt more interesting this time - it was nice to see them taken away from what felt like a primary focus still on sexual politics in Choice, and something more interesting here. It would be nice to see inside their head male slave's head too. Garos also felt more compelling this time - it will be nice to see how you develop him.

As did Starfleet - although the assassination plot felt very perfunctory, but I'm glad it was not laboured over. That would be too cliche. This speedy approach comes, I guess, from not being the core plot of the novel - certain things just happen to advance the story?

Looking forward to part 3!
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Old April 2 2014, 01:57 PM   #92
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

star trek wrote: View Post

A personal request to Christoper Bennet, please can you include Shran in the next book?.
I never planned to have Shran absent for long. There wasn't a role for him in Book 2, but I consider him an important part of the ensemble.


Markonian wrote: View Post
Hravishran th'Zoarhi is Shran's imperial name but that doesn't require him to use it. The captain of Thejal was officially known as Trenkanshent sh'Lavan but went by her native Dreshnan name Kanshent Shelav. We have that on present-day Earth, too: If my native name was Steffen Müller, I might call myself Steven Miller when in the USA. In short, I don't think a legal name change is necessary.
Exactly. Lots of people go by different names in different countries or contexts. Jackie Chan is really Chan Kong-Sang. Agents of SHIELD's Chloe Bennet went by Wang Keying when she lived in Beijing. Alexander Siddig's real full name is Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi.

Besides, canon trumps tie-ins, and the name Thy'lek Shran is from an onscreen graphic in an episode, which makes it not quite canonical but certainly closer. And I never liked the novels' insistence on forcing every Andorian name to conform to the pattern created for the DS9 relaunch. Earth has hundreds of different naming conventions, so why should an alien world have only one?


Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
You know what would be a great thing to see in the next Rise of the Federation novel? A detailed explanation for "Warp Delta". http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Warp...2Warp_Delta.22
I've looked into the ship classes that were around in the era, so it's possible that more of them could show up later on, if there's a good opportunity for it.


Skywalker wrote: View Post
I'll admit that I do still find this concept sort of confusing. Christopher, so the Federation Starfleet as of the 2160s consists of several organizations under one umbrella, those being UESPA, the Andorian Guard, the Tellar Space Administration, the Alpha Centauri Space Research Council, and the Vulcan Space Council, correct? Does that mean that each sub-organization has its own fleet of ships, all of them crewed only by members of that sub-organization? For example, is every crewmember of the Endeavour or Pioneer--even those who aren't citizens of United Earth--part of UESPA (and thus wear the arrowhead insignia), or do the ships feature integrated crews consisting of officers from all of the various sub-organizations (each wearing whichever insignia is appropriate for them)?
At this early stage in Starfleet history, the various space agencies administer their own fleets with their own crews -- since, after all, they were independent fleets just a few years ago, and the first Starfleet Academy cadets are still about a year away from graduating. There's some exchange of officers among fleets, akin to T'Pol's service aboard NX-01 as a Vulcan High Command officer in the first couple of seasons of ENT. I don't think I've specified, but unless I've established otherwise and forgotten, I think Thanien would still technically be an Imperial Guard officer.


Jarvisimo wrote: View Post
This speedy approach comes, I guess, from not being the core plot of the novel - certain things just happen to advance the story?
It comes from having an 80,000-word limit, mainly. But I have more room on the next two.
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Old April 2 2014, 04:06 PM   #93
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Jarvisimo wrote: View Post
This speedy approach comes, I guess, from not being the core plot of the novel - certain things just happen to advance the story?
It comes from having an 80,000-word limit, mainly. But I have more room on the next two.
Great news!
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Old April 2 2014, 05:15 PM   #94
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Excellent news I'm glad the Enterpise books will have longer length stories.

Last edited by Reanok; April 2 2014 at 07:43 PM.
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Old April 2 2014, 06:38 PM   #95
Enterprise1701
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
You know what would be a great thing to see in the next Rise of the Federation novel? A detailed explanation for "Warp Delta". http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Warp...2Warp_Delta.22
I've looked into the ship classes that were around in the era, so it's possible that more of them could show up later on, if there's a good opportunity for it.
Thank you. That is pleasing news to hear.
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Old April 2 2014, 07:04 PM   #96
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
At this early stage in Starfleet history, the various space agencies administer their own fleets with their own crews -- since, after all, they were independent fleets just a few years ago, and the first Starfleet Academy cadets are still about a year away from graduating. There's some exchange of officers among fleets, akin to T'Pol's service aboard NX-01 as a Vulcan High Command officer in the first couple of seasons of ENT. I don't think I've specified, but unless I've established otherwise and forgotten, I think Thanien would still technically be an Imperial Guard officer.
Okay, that's about what I figured. I was picturing non-United Earth characters wearing the insignia of their respective member worlds, i.e. Thanien wearing the Imperial Guard one, Rey Sangupta wearing the Alpha Centauri Council one (at least I think you established him as being from Alpha Centauri), Grev wearing the Tellar Space Administration one, etc. Of course, I imagine T'Pol still wears the UESPA arrowhead, since she was a member of Earth's Starfleet when the Federation was founded, not the Vulcan organization.
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Old April 2 2014, 07:20 PM   #97
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^To be honest, I never really thought about it. But that makes sense. Still, if T'Pol could switch organizations without having to go through the Academy, perhaps others could as well.
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Old April 2 2014, 07:26 PM   #98
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I had honestly assumed that Thanien had transferred from the Andorian Guard to UESPA, but I like the idea that he's still a Guardsman.
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Old April 2 2014, 08:23 PM   #99
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Will a Rise of the Federation novel explain how Kirk could say United Earth Space Probe Agency in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" and how UESPA's name was seen on background art in 2293 in Star Trek Generations? I can't figure out any way to reconcile it since from what I can discern, Starfleet is truly a federal-level organization from the 23rd century on.
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Old April 2 2014, 08:35 PM   #100
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
Will a Rise of the Federation novel explain how Kirk could say United Earth Space Probe Agency in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" and how UESPA's name was seen on background art in 2293 in Star Trek Generations? I can't figure out any way to reconcile it since from what I can discern, Starfleet is truly a federal-level organization from the 23rd century on.
Well, I think the idea is that Starfleet retains some sense of the original division for at least the next century. This explains the species segregation (Enterprise, Constellation, etc. mostly Human, Intrepid mostly Vulcan, Eagle - if it exists in Novel 'Verse continuity - mostly Andorian). Plus the insignia are still in use in Kirk's time: the crew of Antares sport the (now identified as Tellarite) "hoof" emblem, the Constellation crew are using the Andorii defence emblem (though they're majority-Human); Enterprise uses UESPA insignia, explaining those early references to it being a UESPA and Earth ship. I think it's only in the TOS movie era that they finally complete the integration, and all adopt the arrowhead...


PS: More chapter summaries later.
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Old April 2 2014, 08:57 PM   #101
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
Will a Rise of the Federation novel explain how Kirk could say United Earth Space Probe Agency in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" and how UESPA's name was seen on background art in 2293 in Star Trek Generations? I can't figure out any way to reconcile it since from what I can discern, Starfleet is truly a federal-level organization from the 23rd century on.
Well, I think the idea is that Starfleet retains some sense of the original division for at least the next century. This explains the species segregation (Enterprise, Constellation, etc. mostly Human, Intrepid mostly Vulcan, Eagle - if it exists in Novel 'Verse continuity - mostly Andorian). Plus the insignia are still in use in Kirk's time: the crew of Antares sport the (now identified as Tellarite) "hoof" emblem, the Constellation crew are using the Andorii defence emblem (though they're majority-Human); Enterprise uses UESPA insignia, explaining those early references to it being a UESPA and Earth ship. I think it's only in the TOS movie era that they finally complete the integration, and all adopt the arrowhead...


PS: More chapter summaries later.
Yeah. The implication seems to be that the Federation Starfleet really is a federal-level institution as early as 2161, but it is divisions consist of the old space services of the pre-Federated member states, transferred away from member authority and joined together under federal authority. Thus, the 1701, even as late as the 2260s, was part of the UESPA division of the Federation Starfleet (with UESPA answering to the Federation government through the Federation Starfleet Chiefs of Staff, not to the U.E. government), while the Constellation was part of the Andorian Guard division of the Federation Starfleet (again, answering to the Federation government rather than the Andorian government).
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Old April 2 2014, 09:49 PM   #102
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sci wrote: View Post
Yeah. The implication seems to be that the Federation Starfleet really is a federal-level institution as early as 2161, but it is divisions consist of the old space services of the pre-Federated member states, transferred away from member authority and joined together under federal authority.
Yes. My model is the European Space Agency, which is a cooperative effort of the various member nations' space agencies, which provide resources, personnel, materials, and funding to the overall whole. Presumably over time it becomes more integrated, but some remnant of the early subdivisions remains in place as part of the organizational structure well into the 23rd century.
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Old April 3 2014, 01:54 AM   #103
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Which clears that confusion up to my satisfaction. Merci.
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Old April 3 2014, 03:55 AM   #104
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sci wrote: View Post
Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
Will a Rise of the Federation novel explain how Kirk could say United Earth Space Probe Agency in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" and how UESPA's name was seen on background art in 2293 in Star Trek Generations? I can't figure out any way to reconcile it since from what I can discern, Starfleet is truly a federal-level organization from the 23rd century on.
Well, I think the idea is that Starfleet retains some sense of the original division for at least the next century. This explains the species segregation (Enterprise, Constellation, etc. mostly Human, Intrepid mostly Vulcan, Eagle - if it exists in Novel 'Verse continuity - mostly Andorian). Plus the insignia are still in use in Kirk's time: the crew of Antares sport the (now identified as Tellarite) "hoof" emblem, the Constellation crew are using the Andorii defence emblem (though they're majority-Human); Enterprise uses UESPA insignia, explaining those early references to it being a UESPA and Earth ship. I think it's only in the TOS movie era that they finally complete the integration, and all adopt the arrowhead...


PS: More chapter summaries later.
Yeah. The implication seems to be that the Federation Starfleet really is a federal-level institution as early as 2161, but it is divisions consist of the old space services of the pre-Federated member states, transferred away from member authority and joined together under federal authority. Thus, the 1701, even as late as the 2260s, was part of the UESPA division of the Federation Starfleet (with UESPA answering to the Federation government through the Federation Starfleet Chiefs of Staff, not to the U.E. government), while the Constellation was part of the Andorian Guard division of the Federation Starfleet (again, answering to the Federation government rather than the Andorian government).
What about the diverse Starbase 47 - Vanguard?
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Old April 3 2014, 04:45 AM   #105
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Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

My assumption is that by the 23rd century, the divisions that started out as separate planets' space agencies have become more just organizational branches of a unified, multispecies Starfleet, with the species/national divisions mostly fading -- which is why the human-crewed Constellation and Antares had insignias for what were originally Andorian and Tellarite fleets. Perhaps those branches are still administered from offices on Andor, Tellar, etc., but the crews wouldn't be formally segregated on racial lines.

But there can be other interpretations. IDW's Burden of Knowledge portrayed the Andorians and Tellarites as still having separate fleets (using ENT-era ship designs) in the TOS era.
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