RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,381
Posts: 5,504,849
Members: 25,126
Currently online: 628
Newest member: Captain Allen

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Tower of Babel.
Outstanding 15 23.44%
Above Average 29 45.31%
Average 19 29.69%
Below Average 1 1.56%
Poor 0 0%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 24 2014, 12:58 PM   #31
Enterpriserules
Commodore
 
Enterpriserules's Avatar
 
Location: On an Andorian Atlire-class escort cruisers, the Mat-Rus. From "The Poisoned Chalice
View Enterpriserules's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I do wish there was more flexibility with the release of the digital book, since I always have to wait. But it's almost always worth the wait these days with Trek books. Crossing my fingers for another NYT best seller!
__________________
My Blog is www.42lifeinbetween.wordpress.com and I am the host of the general geek show The 602 Club and the co-host of Literary Treks and The Orb podcasts.
Enterpriserules is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 04:44 PM   #32
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: Ch'Rihan.
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

It's here. I'm off to read it now.
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 04:54 PM   #33
Patrick O'Brien
Captain
 
Patrick O'Brien's Avatar
 
Location: Brooklyn NY
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

One more day until kindle download. Best of luck to Chris on the new novel. I hope it is a big success.
__________________
The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.
-Dr. McCoy, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Patrick O'Brien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 05:40 PM   #34
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: Ch'Rihan.
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I know the thread says 'spoilers', but I'm just warning readers anyway - there'll be spoilers here, and in subsequent posts. I'm going to jot down my thoughts as I read through, which I've not done for a while (the last time was Zero Sum Game, I believe). I'm going to guess that this book warrants it, though. The Rise of the Federation series fleshes out a previously unknown but inarguably essential period of Trek-verse history, and there'll likely be a lot to digest.

So, we open with a quote from Thoris, about the Tower of Babel myth, which of course gives its name to both the Conference Planet(oid) and the novel itself. Thematically, it speaks to the contradictory urges toward unity and fragmentation, the desire to reach out to others and build something with them, wrestling with a fear that many don't want to face up to - the difficulty in trusting, in finding common ground, the excuses and justifications peoples make for holding back. Implicitly, and beyond its general relevance, I find it very interesting that an Andorian is given the quote - being scattered by the All-Knowing deity into separate camps as punishment for hubris, and having to reassemble in unity those sundered pieces; a familiar legend, no? Are you talking about your own people as well as the humans, Thoris? We shall see, I assume.

Thoris speaks of humanity having 'conquered the heavens', which leads in nicely to the prologue, which opens on a Klingon-eye view of the new political status quo. We have an overview of recent developments filtered through Klingon expectations and cultural perspectives; in this version, the crafty, duplicitous Humans have overthrown the Vulcan Empire and taken power themselves, incorporating the Andorians and Tellarites and being ever hungry for further prizes. This is useful in setting up the conflict that will define the 23rd Century - that of the Klingon/Federation cold war, which always seemed from the Klingon side at least to be a specifically Klingon/Human cold war. The Klingons look to the strongest or the supposed strongest and identify power and worth there and there alone; as Martok will one day say, Klingons don't embrace other cultures, they conquer them. There can only be one in the Klingon worldview, a leader and those who are led. Here we see the genesis of the discourse we'll later see threading its way through 23rd Century novels - that of the noble, war-like Klingon Empire facing its rival, the ever-expanding Human Empire, which in supposed contrast to the Klingons is two-faced, hypocritical, cowardly, deceptive and unable to be honest even with itself. Intolerable in the affront it represents, its foundations immoral and dishonourable.

We also see how the QuchHa'/HemQuch divide is deepening, setting up the other major Klingon issue of the century to come - the urge by those who bear the appearance (and, some argue, the psychological traits) of the devious enemy to regain power or prove that they are in fact 'real Klingons'. This examination of who and what is a real Klingon will in turn, as we see in the Errand Of... books among others, feed into a wider cultural examination that sees the revitalization of the Warrior Ethic as promoted by Kahless.

For a short scene, there's a lot acknowledged here; I, at least, read it in part as an exploration, however slight, of how the Klingons that re-emerge at Donatu V many decades from now lead on from those in the Enterprise era.

Anyhow, the Klingon captain cheers himself up by shooting at some Lorillians. (Hello, Lorillians! You do exist, and were another neutered Vulcan protectorate, apparently. Earth apologises for the MACOs who are even now headed to Erigol, causing your world to be annihilated two centuries uptime. The humans will pre-emptively make up for that by trying to save you from Klingons).
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.

Last edited by Deranged Nasat; March 24 2014 at 09:14 PM.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 06:35 PM   #35
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Implicitly, and beyond its general relevance, I find it very interesting that an Andorian is given the quote - being scattered by the All-Knowing deity into separate camps as punishment for hubris, and having to reassemble in unity those sundered pieces; a familiar legend, no? Are you talking about your own people as well as the humans, Thoris? We shall see, I assume.
Actually I was originally going to attribute the epigraph quote to Azetbur at the Khitomer Conference, but I figured that if that were immediately followed by a Klingon-centric opening scene, it would create false expectations that the book would be Klingon-focused. Thoris seemed like a good alternative, since Andorians are also a "warrior culture" so the point of view wouldn't be dissimilar.

Also, the Klingon captain was originally going to be the bad guy from "Marauders," but I didn't want to overdo the continuity porn.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 06:37 PM   #36
Ronald Held
Rear Admiral
 
Location: On the USS Sovereign
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Due to bad weather I will look for a copy Thursday. If the B&N does not have one I will have to order it from Amazon.
Ronald Held is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 06:43 PM   #37
ATimson
Rear Admiral
 
ATimson's Avatar
 
Location: Andrew Timson
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Also, the Klingon captain was originally going to be the bad guy from "Marauders," but I didn't want to overdo the continuity porn.
Who are you, and what have you done with Christopher L. Bennett?
__________________
Andrew Timson
===============
"Niceness is the greatest human flaw, except for all the others." - Brendan Moody

"...don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido
ATimson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 06:53 PM   #38
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: Ch'Rihan.
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Some character work with Mayweather, Dax and Kirk's great-grandparents (this sounds a little like the lead-in to a joke ), and a sense of discontent/uncertainty over the Federation's role as interstellar police, which it can't or shouldn't embrace as readily as some of its members might wish it to.

Next, we have T'Pol and crew responding to a dispute between Tellarite settlers and Human 'Space Boomer' colonists. This part of the prologue, I assume, sketches in the major conflicts that are going to be explored in the novel and the rest of the series. Centralized authority and permanent, strict rules VS flexibility and freedom; the frontier giving way to a settled infrastructure; the good, the bad and the neutral regarding the firming of interstellar commerce and the political unity that have resulted from the Federation's founding. There's a lot of meaty stuff brought up here, if not explored in any depth yet (it's only the prologue). This is why Christopher is a good match for this project; he's good at spinning a sense of a large and complex universe with many personal and interpersonal perspectives, which is just what this series needs. The rise of the Federation is a massive game-changer that will have knock-on effects in every area of life; politically, socially, culturally, economically. It needs a large scope. The whole idea of what the Federation is and means, what is changing and how various people are collectively and individually responding to it, is brought into play here. I assume the rest of the book will tackle most of this in more detail.

Interesting continuity stuff: Brantik. I peeked at the acknowledgements, which confirm that there is an intentional link between the captain and the major Tellarite colony mentioned in Articles of the Federation - Iota Pegasi is Brantik? Also, Tellarite ships are Arkonian designs in-universe as well as out. Finally, Archer seems to make a cute 'anticipating-the-Neyel' comment.

On to chapter one! Which I've already read, but there you are.
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 07:04 PM   #39
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Finally, Archer seems to make a cute 'anticipating-the-Neyel' comment.
No, that was just in reference to the various weird human-offshoot colonies we've seen in the shows and books, such as the Paragon colony in "The Masterpiece Society" or the Dragon Empire from Dragon's Honor.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 07:09 PM   #40
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: Ch'Rihan.
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Finally, Archer seems to make a cute 'anticipating-the-Neyel' comment.
No, that was just in reference to the various weird human-offshoot colonies we've seen in the shows and books, such as the Paragon colony in "The Masterpiece Society" or the Dragon Empire from Dragon's Honor.
Ah, okay. It just made me think of the Neyel - it's the combination of colonial offshoots striking out into deep space and asteroids on the move, no doubt.
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 08:50 PM   #41
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: Ch'Rihan.
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Chapter One has three scenes, all interesting in their own way. We have the Three Sisters expanding their network of allies, recruiting some more-or-less familiar faces from the first two seasons, we have a look at how things are developing on Sauria, and we have Archer discussing both business and personal issues with his old friend Danica Erikson, who it seems might become Archer's love interest too. Well, it's nice to see Archer with a social life outside of Trip and... Porthos, I guess? Archer needs more friends. Shran was a frenemy, that doesn't count.

So was T'Pol at first, come to think of it.

Anyway, it's great to have a more in-depth look at Sauria. The description of the harbour city was engaging, and interesting to visualise. I'm glad that this series is fleshing out planets that from other series' perspective are long-standing Federation members, planets like Sauria and the Rigel Worlds. The Federation is (or will be) a rich and very diverse place, I've long wanted to explore its member worlds more fully. At the moment, there appears to be a plague of some kind in a M'Tezir-proximate country, presumably step one in Maltuvis' effort to be listed among the all-time greats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGUqwaORfbU

So, we have confirmation that the Criminal Enterprises Alliance and the Really Great Dictator are going to be ongoing antagonists, which is fine by me. It's logical given what we saw of crime and piracy, etc., in Enterprise combined with the Federation's inevitable stabilizing effect. The conflicts going forward are going to be between the forces of stability and those who thrive on instability, between law and freedom, between different interpretations of what the Federation national character should be. There aren't any major armed conflicts for the next century - this is made explicit in several TOS novels regarding the Klingon march to war - but nor is the galaxy going to passively roll over and accept policing.

Finally, we have Archer offering a brief introduction to Rigel - the tattooed people are the Jelna, the Vulcanoid-Human ones are the Zami - a nice reference to a RPG name for Rigel IV, I appreciate that sort of homage - we have the Chelons of course, there are settlers from other species - Xarantine and Coridanite are mentioned - and the Trade Commission is to all intents and purposes the government.
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2014, 12:19 AM   #42
nickyboy
Fleet Captain
 
nickyboy's Avatar
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

My copy arrived on my iPad this morning. Read a cheeky 30 pages once I arrived in work.
__________________
"Now if this cross examination is over, I'd like to take a crap"

Romo Lampkin - The Son Also Rises
nickyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2014, 09:43 PM   #43
UUS Contrarian
Lieutenant
 
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Anybody who dislikes ENT and Archer and liked the previous book?
UUS Contrarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25 2014, 10:35 PM   #44
Jedi Ben
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Essex, UK
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

UUS Contrarian wrote: View Post
Anybody who dislikes ENT and Archer and liked the previous book?
That'd be me!
Jedi Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26 2014, 04:18 AM   #45
Enterprise1701
Fleet Captain
 
Enterprise1701's Avatar
 
Location: Sol III, Sector 001, 2014 C.E.
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

So exactly how many Rigellian species are there total native to the Raij'hl/Rigel/Beta Rigel system?
Enterprise1701 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
reviewpoll_v1

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:42 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.