RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 142,228
Posts: 5,549,377
Members: 25,259
Currently online: 581
Newest member: fundone2000-MA

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
By: Michelle on Jan 24

Urban in Aquaman?
By: T'Bonz on Jan 23

Pegg Co-writing Star Trek 3
By: T'Bonz on Jan 22

Stewart Narrated NASA Documentary
By: T'Bonz on Jan 21

Star Trek 3 Filming To Begin
By: T'Bonz on Jan 21

IDW Publishing Trek Comics For April 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jan 20

Star Trek-Planet of the Apes #2
By: T'Bonz on Jan 20

Clark Details Trek Books
By: T'Bonz on Jan 20

Takei To Appear On Wits
By: T'Bonz on Jan 20

Retro Review: Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang
By: Michelle on Jan 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Tower of Babel.
Outstanding 15 22.73%
Above Average 30 45.45%
Average 19 28.79%
Below Average 2 3.03%
Poor 0 0%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 9 2014, 01:27 AM   #166
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: "And so I was like, ha, I don't need no antennae. I'm animated, baby".
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Moving on...

I like Vons (er, "Vons" ), he's a strange sort of villain in this chapter. I can't quite put my finger on it (it's late here) but his brief scenes gave him a rather amusing character. "Beware, for it is... the Assistant Director!" In other words, he's pleasantly mundane, and doesn't quite have the gravitas to live up to his role as the bad guy here (this is a good thing, I want to make clear - it adds a slight edge of surreality and ho-hummity to the whole thing). He has just enough little quirks to amuse, and there's something off about him. Of course, this isn't Vons but I don't think we know this yet. So for now, we'll imagine that he is merely the Assistant Director. He certainly interested me when I read this scene, so that's good.

The directors are probably a bit less successful, in my mind (although they too all have distinct characters). They remind me of the League of Non-Aligned Worlds in Babylon Five, being needlessly argumentative and counterproductive, to the point where you wonder what exactly they're doing representing their peoples at all. Given Mayweather's reaction, I grant that this is sort of the point, but I feel it's just a little too much. The scene's suggestion of a complex history to the Rigel worlds and their inhabitants' interrelations is nice - the scope and sprawl of it distilled to four people in a room bickering - but it's not my favourite scene so far. Still, it is a crisis situation and they're on edge for obvious reasons, so I suppose they have cause to be particularly snippy with each other. They're all scared and far less secure than they were, after all. Besides, Mayweather asking "as innocently as he could" whether the Chelon director knows anyone with the right political ties was certainly amusing. Play the game, Travis. It definitely plays to the idea that Mayweather wins through by just being friendly and honest, so that no-one ever reads him as hostile (as explicitly observed by Archer in the first book).

I'd be totally torn about living in Rigel. It seems to be a place that I'd both hate and find compelling all at once. Archer's reaction to the description of the Rigelian way of doing things, of this somewhat ludicrous system they've arrived at through the long process of their various intertwining histories, pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

Anyway, now we're well and truly immersed in this Rigelian wonderland, we're off to see if the Chelons have any room at the tea party.



"NO ROOM! NO ROOM!"
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.

Last edited by Deranged Nasat; April 9 2014 at 01:53 AM.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9 2014, 03:11 AM   #167
Jedi_Master
Rear Admiral
 
Jedi_Master's Avatar
 
Location: Where other people pay to visit.
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Annotations are quite excellent. They also reminded me of the awesome reference to Month Pythons "how not to be seen" sketch which in my mind is better than "Dead parrot"
Jedi_Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9 2014, 11:46 PM   #168
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I just thought of another point in the safe/unsafe character debate. Even when there is a rule in place that a certain character can't be killed off permanently, that doesn't mean they can't die in a story. They just have to be back alive by the time the story is over. That's really the only thing those kinds of rules effect, how things end. You could shake things up during the story, but by the time it is over everything must be back to the way it started.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2014, 01:23 AM   #169
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JD wrote: View Post
I just thought of another point in the safe/unsafe character debate. Even when there is a rule in place that a certain character can't be killed off permanently, that doesn't mean they can't die in a story. They just have to be back alive by the time the story is over. That's really the only thing those kinds of rules effect, how things end. You could shake things up during the story, but by the time it is over everything must be back to the way it started.
But that kind of reset button approach is arguably an even worse cliche than hero invulnerability. It compounds the problem rather than solving it.

As I've been saying, there are a lot of ways to make meaningful and lasting changes in a character's life short of killing that character. I'd rather look for those than just fall back on a lazy gimmick like fakeout deaths.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2014, 12:31 PM   #170
Markonian
Captain
 
Markonian's Avatar
 
Location: Cork, Ireland
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
That would be cool. And I wonder if there's a way to kitbash an NX-01 model into an Intrepid-class ship...
For experts, probably yes. I've seen pictures of somebody building an NX refit with an alternate secondary hull configuration.

However, I consider it more likely that Eaglemoss includes the Intrepid somewhere down the line. They have included a great stock of 22nd century ships. The model would probably go unlabelled, just like the Intrepid in "Twilight".
__________________
1.000 years: University Leipzig, 1409-2409
Gorn to be wild!
Markonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2014, 03:03 AM   #171
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
I just thought of another point in the safe/unsafe character debate. Even when there is a rule in place that a certain character can't be killed off permanently, that doesn't mean they can't die in a story. They just have to be back alive by the time the story is over. That's really the only thing those kinds of rules effect, how things end. You could shake things up during the story, but by the time it is over everything must be back to the way it started.
But that kind of reset button approach is arguably an even worse cliche than hero invulnerability. It compounds the problem rather than solving it.

As I've been saying, there are a lot of ways to make meaningful and lasting changes in a character's life short of killing that character. I'd rather look for those than just fall back on a lazy gimmick like fakeout deaths.
I'm not a fan of it either, I was just pointing out that it is possible to do it.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11 2014, 01:12 PM   #172
Enterpriserules
Commodore
 
Enterpriserules's Avatar
 
Location: On an Andorian Atlire-class escort cruisers, the Mat-Rus. From "The Poisoned Chalice
View Enterpriserules's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Another well done book. I very much enjoyed this one. So much going on, I feel like I need an immediate reread to get it all.
__________________
My Blog is www.42lifeinbetween.wordpress.com and I am the host of the general geek show The 602 Club and the co-host of Literary Treks and The Orb podcasts.
Enterpriserules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 13 2014, 06:32 AM   #173
Sto-Vo-Kory
Captain
 
Sto-Vo-Kory's Avatar
 
Location: Battle Creek, MI
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Great book and an excellent sequel.

The two principle ships' crews are developing nicely; Pioneer, in particular, has blossomed into a fun assortment of characters. The Sam and Val storyline was handled wonderfully and I look forward to its progression in future novels.

Speaking of Val, what a great character. She's in security, so you expect her to kick ass (and she does) but she's clever as well -- outwitting an antagonist while bound to a chair. Reminded me of that scene from the Avengers movie with Black Widow. It's not hard to see why Sam Kirk fancies her. (Aside: Just ask her out already!)

I read Early Voyages #3 just before reading the Kalar portion of the book and it definitely amplified my enjoyment of that section. When "Abnett" and "Zircher" came out of the shuttlecraft, it made me smile. A nice tip of the hat to the ol' EV gang.

A lot of nice peeks into the Rigel worlds under the framework of investigating leads. The Chelon world was my favorite.

The Sauria thread continues to grow in the margins of this series and Trip keeps straddling the line between what he wants Section 31 to become and what we know it inevitably becomes. Curious to see where these lead.

And that epilogue...! Felt like a modern Doctor Who opening tease or (considering its placement in the book) an after credits scene in a Marvel movie. Either way, it whetted my appetite for the next volume -- mission accomplished.

Thanks for the fun read, Christopher, and thanks also for the speedy posting of your annotations. They are always greatly appreciated.
Sto-Vo-Kory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 14 2014, 04:17 PM   #174
Enterpriserules
Commodore
 
Enterpriserules's Avatar
 
Location: On an Andorian Atlire-class escort cruisers, the Mat-Rus. From "The Poisoned Chalice
View Enterpriserules's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

We had a lot of fun with Dan of Trek Lit Reviews talking about the book on Literary Treks
__________________
My Blog is www.42lifeinbetween.wordpress.com and I am the host of the general geek show The 602 Club and the co-host of Literary Treks and The Orb podcasts.
Enterpriserules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 14 2014, 10:34 PM   #175
Kertrats47
Commodore
 
Kertrats47's Avatar
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
View Kertrats47's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
We had a lot of fun with Dan of Trek Lit Reviews talking about the book on Literary Treks
Thanks, I had a lot of fun, too! Great discussion about Tower of Babel!
__________________
Trek Lit Reviews (Worlds of DS9: Cardassia: The Lotus Flower by Una McCormack - Jan. 24, 2015)
Literary Treks 88: The Q Cardassian - IDW's "The Q Gambit"
Kertrats47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15 2014, 06:08 PM   #176
Reanok
Commodore
 
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Enterprise Rules that was an excellent podcast discussion of the Enterprise Tower of Babel novel. I really enjoyed listening the detailed discussion of the storyarcs with the Different different characters especially talking about Archer, Malcolm and Trip&T'Pol's relationship and section 31 one in the book. And Trip is unhappy with Section 31 actions in this book.
Reanok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 01:24 PM   #177
Enterpriserules
Commodore
 
Enterpriserules's Avatar
 
Location: On an Andorian Atlire-class escort cruisers, the Mat-Rus. From "The Poisoned Chalice
View Enterpriserules's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Reanok wrote: View Post
Enterprise Rules that was an excellent podcast discussion of the Enterprise Tower of Babel novel. I really enjoyed listening the detailed discussion of the storyarcs with the Different different characters especially talking about Archer, Malcolm and Trip&T'Pol's relationship and section 31 one in the book. And Trip is unhappy with Section 31 actions in this book.
Thank you so much! Having Dan on was the real plus and I think he elevated the conversation. Chris' books are so dense so gives us a lot to talk about.
__________________
My Blog is www.42lifeinbetween.wordpress.com and I am the host of the general geek show The 602 Club and the co-host of Literary Treks and The Orb podcasts.
Enterpriserules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 04:03 PM   #178
SD70ACe
Lieutenant Commander
 
SD70ACe's Avatar
 
Location: Aperture Science Enrichment Center
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Listening to the episode right now...looks like I wasn't the only one who felt that the book was a bit "preachy" at times concerning modern American politics, regardless of stripe.
SD70ACe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 06:43 PM   #179
Enterpriserules
Commodore
 
Enterpriserules's Avatar
 
Location: On an Andorian Atlire-class escort cruisers, the Mat-Rus. From "The Poisoned Chalice
View Enterpriserules's Twitter Profile
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ That has been apart of Trek since the 60's so it does not surprise me when I see it in the novels. Chris has every right to put forth his views and even if I don't always agree, keeps me honest to my own.
__________________
My Blog is www.42lifeinbetween.wordpress.com and I am the host of the general geek show The 602 Club and the co-host of Literary Treks and The Orb podcasts.
Enterpriserules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16 2014, 07:25 PM   #180
SD70ACe
Lieutenant Commander
 
SD70ACe's Avatar
 
Location: Aperture Science Enrichment Center
Re: ENT: Tower of Babel by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Oh, I know that. It just seemed a bit more obvious, that's all. If that makes sense.

And I don't think you sang enough in that episode.
SD70ACe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
reviewpoll_v1

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.