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Old March 31 2014, 11:30 PM   #16
Danny99
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

I enjoyed it, but the whole premise to get them onto the Defiant was laborious all for the one fan wank moment. That moment was cool, but I was already turned off by the voyage to get there.
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Old April 1 2014, 01:52 AM   #17
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

I agree that Original Gorn has quite the atavistic charm (especially its eyes), but on the other hand, not being very knowledgable about the mechanics of latter day SFX, I must say I found the work process in creating this iteration as detailed in the dvd extras, pretty impressive, from maquette to the final tweaks.


I think the episode's TOS connection conceit was pretty satisfying and while it contributed to the top heavy multi-layer cake type construction, there were more than a few pleasures to be had in appreciating it.


I would suggest that however engagingly arranged any Mirror episode might be, the longer term viability of the basic premise is a different proposition altogether. It might be rather hard to engineer a season long arc or certainly an entire program around this without getting numbingly repetitive pretty soon. Perhaps an insurrectionary drama, starting on an intimately scaled level, that allowed for the protagonists to question each other's beliefs about the morality of empire/civilization building sans noisome posturing, would be a draw, for me anyway.

Otherwise, forget it.
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Old April 2 2014, 02:16 AM   #18
Mr Pointy Ears
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

Im very happy to hear that im not the only one who didn't like the 2 parter mirror universe,they lack the evilness of the original series episode,the only thing I like was hoshi the ho.
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Old April 2 2014, 04:55 AM   #19
Lance
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

Even as a mirror-verse episode, I have to say that 'In A Mirror Darkly' suffers for me from being so totally separate from the rest of ENT. The show had evolved into a fairly tight unit by that point, with each episode building more and more upon this more grounded and realistic take on the Star Trek franchise, and 'In A Mirror Darkly' stands separately from that. It's utterly skippable on any rewatch of the entire series, in much the same way as 'These Are The Voyages' stands alone, adding almost nothing of substance to the ongoing arc of the show.

As a stand-alone experience though, I'd opine that 'In A Mirror Darkly' would make a hell of a great stand-alone TV movie in and of itself.
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Old April 3 2014, 07:57 AM   #20
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

"In A Mirror, Darkly" is a fun little two-parter that's definitely a nice example of fan service. It's basically ENT's dark id having a fun night out.

That's both its biggest strength and its biggest weakness. It's a fun two-parter -- but it also opens the door to wondering what a show that takes the nightmare of life in a futuristic totalitarian state seriously might look like. Prime example: The sexy women in revealing uniforms who cavort with starship captains for power games may seem like sexy fun... but if you consider the kind of culture that would realistically produce such a phenomenon, you start to realize how pervasive sexual assault and rape likely are in the Terran Empire.

I'd take David Mack's vision of life under the Empress in the novel Mirror Universe: The Sorrows of Empire over the less earnest depiction in "Mirror, Darkly," at the end of the day.
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Old April 3 2014, 04:24 PM   #21
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

Sci wrote: View Post
"In A Mirror, Darkly" is a fun little two-parter that's definitely a nice example of fan service. It's basically ENT's dark id having a fun night out.

That's both its biggest strength and its biggest weakness. It's a fun two-parter -- but it also opens the door to wondering what a show that takes the nightmare of life in a futuristic totalitarian state seriously might look like. Prime example: The sexy women in revealing uniforms who cavort with starship captains for power games may seem like sexy fun... but if you consider the kind of culture that would realistically produce such a phenomenon, you start to realize how pervasive sexual assault and rape likely are in the Terran Empire.

I'd take David Mack's vision of life under the Empress in the novel Mirror Universe: The Sorrows of Empire over the less earnest depiction in "Mirror, Darkly," at the end of the day.
Really nothing about the mirror universe is realistic, and I don't think you can watch any episode with the expectation that it is.
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Old April 3 2014, 07:44 PM   #22
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

[QUOTE=t_smitts;9435274]
Sci wrote: View Post
"In A Mirror, Darkly" is a fun little two-parter that's definitely a nice example of fan service. It's basically ENT's dark id having a fun night out.

That's both its biggest strength and its biggest weakness. It's a fun two-parter -- but it also opens the door to wondering what a show that takes the nightmare of life in a futuristic totalitarian state seriously might look like. Prime example: The sexy women in revealing uniforms who cavort with starship captains for power games may seem like sexy fun... but if you consider the kind of culture that would realistically produce such a phenomenon, you start to realize how pervasive sexual assault and rape likely are in the Terran Empire.

Really nothing about the mirror universe is realistic, and I don't think you can watch any episode with the expectation that it is.
But if Ent had continued and Manny had gotten the opportunity to realize his vision of a completely separate Mirror Universe arc, and if he wanted to really go "dark" with a story, rampant sex assault and it's consequences might have made a pretty interesting story.

I'd take David Mack's vision of life under the Empress in the novel Mirror Universe: The Sorrows of Empire over the less earnest depiction in "Mirror, Darkly," at the end of the day.
Agree. For my money, one of the best Sci Fi reads you'll ever get. The TOSand Ent stories are near perfection. I highly recommend especially for TOS and Ent fans.
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Old April 4 2014, 01:15 AM   #23
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

Sci wrote: View Post
I'd take David Mack's vision of life under the Empress in the novel Mirror Universe: The Sorrows of Empire over the less earnest depiction in "Mirror, Darkly," at the end of the day.

^^ Right on the money!!! A cliche perhaps, but I really did read it all in one sitting!!!
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Old April 4 2014, 08:19 PM   #24
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

Although it's a fun episode, I always thought the ending was a bit.... abrupt.

I can remember when I first watched it, and the credits rolled immediately after Hoshi said "You're speaking with Empress Sato. Prepare to receive instructions", I was like.....huh, what? Is that it? What did I miss here? Is there a part 3 or something?
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Old April 6 2014, 10:58 PM   #25
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

Isolinear wrote: View Post
Although it's a fun episode, I always thought the ending was a bit.... abrupt.

I can remember when I first watched it, and the credits rolled immediately after Hoshi said "You're speaking with Empress Sato. Prepare to receive instructions", I was like.....huh, what? Is that it? What did I miss here? Is there a part 3 or something?
Uh...the show was cancelled.
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Old April 7 2014, 01:29 AM   #26
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

^ But that wasn't the final episode...

I don't know if they planned on doing a part III if ENT had made it to a 5th season, although they probably would have done.

Surprised that stations on the ground didn't immediately open fire on the Defiant, though. Advanced technology or not, the ship would have taken a heavy beating at least.
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Old April 7 2014, 02:00 AM   #27
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I don't know if they planned on doing a part III if ENT had made it to a 5th season, although they probably would have done.
One thing the writers were careful about was to end it where it's not entirely clear if any of the regulars really die. Even T'Pol, on the doomed NX, could have somehow escaped, though Soval escaping with her might have tripped and gotten impaled by a falling ceiling girder for good measure.

I like the episode. I just finished watching Part 1, and started wondering what they could have done if casting had worked out. Suppose, somewhere between Archer's team beaming over to Defiant and the Enterprise blowing up, they'd found one other thing-- Captain James T. Kirk. Still in his shiny space suit with styrofoam helmet, only he's aged 40 years. Part 2 could go anywhere from there.
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Old April 7 2014, 08:25 PM   #28
t_smitts
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

Melakon wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I don't know if they planned on doing a part III if ENT had made it to a 5th season, although they probably would have done.
One thing the writers were careful about was to end it where it's not entirely clear if any of the regulars really die. Even T'Pol, on the doomed NX, could have somehow escaped, though Soval escaping with her might have tripped and gotten impaled by a falling ceiling girder for good measure.
T'Pol wasn't on the Avenger, she was on the Defiant.
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Old April 7 2014, 08:32 PM   #29
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

I was in a self-induced fog when I wrote that and was too lazy to watch the last act again to determine her whereabouts.
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Old April 7 2014, 09:25 PM   #30
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Re: In a Mirror Darkly: A Critique?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ But that wasn't the final episode...

I don't know if they planned on doing a part III if ENT had made it to a 5th season, although they probably would have done.
Manny Coto said at the time that he planned on having the Mirror Universe episodes continue with it's own separate storyline (separate from Ent), if the show had continued.

And if they had continued with no contact with the real universe, this would have been yet another milestone in originality for Ent -- the first Trek series to feature the MU in episodes completely separate from the RU.

In his short story, Age of the Empress, Mike Sussman likely gives us an idea of where the MU stories were headed, and it makes me sad every time I think about it.
Surprised that stations on the ground didn't immediately open fire on the Defiant, though. Advanced technology or not, the ship would have taken a heavy beating at least.
I don't think so, not with Defiant's advanced shields and firepower.
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