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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 27 2014, 05:57 AM   #31
GalaxyX
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
^^ Well, that's the way I like it, too. Just read an older and long interview with Ronald Moore where he was lamenting that they had to circumvent Gene Roddenberry's "flawless mankind of the future" rule with ingenuity, because both Michael Piller and Rick Berman had been upholding this.

Frankly, having seen nuBSG, I think Roddenberry was a fox, expecting the TNG writers to circumvent his rule but at least trying to accomplish the best results doing so.

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Old March 27 2014, 05:14 PM   #32
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Ro_Laren wrote: View Post
Worf'sParmach wrote: View Post
She may have made the wrong choice, but Michael Dorn should be sending her a Thank You card every year.
Can you imagine Tasha Yar on DS9 instead of Worf?
I actually think Tasha would have fit well on the DS9 island of misfit officers. But her character may have been too similar to Kira's for her to exist there.

Worf was originally supposed to just be a background character, like O'Brien. He wasn't even in the original season 1 TNG promo shots. Roddenberry didn't even want to use any TOS aliens (hence no Vulcans). Denise Crosby leaving TNG opened up a spot for him allowed his character to become what it did.
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Old April 1 2014, 12:41 AM   #33
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Melakon wrote: View Post
There's an old saying, "There are no small parts, only small actors."
This is true.
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Old April 2 2014, 05:39 AM   #34
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

I actually think Tasha would have fit well on the DS9 island of misfit officers. But her character may have been too similar to Kira's for her to exist there.
It's interesting how both actresses pretty much play the same character, but Nana Visitor is praised for her acting ability, yet Denise Crosby is universally panned for her lack of acting ability.

That one really confuses me.
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Old April 2 2014, 05:55 AM   #35
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Let that be a Lesson to you good people:

Never - OK? - NEVER tell your employer that you're not satisfied working there. Alright? Never let those words escape your lips. Swallow hard and choke them down. Whatever it is you have to do. But don't ever give such sentiments utterance ... not even on your personal site!
I kinda disagree with this sentiment, at least in this context. Crosby's primary complaint was that Yar didn't have much to do, so she quit. But as the show went on, people with fewer or similar amount of material like Worf and Troi started to get more exposure, so I take that to mean that the powers that be took those complaints to heart. Maybe she could have handled it differently sure, but voicing a disagreement properly can help bring positive change. Also, if there was any bad blood lingering, it didn't last long, or else Crosby never would have been invited back multiple times, nor would her character be referenced from time to time.

Now, whatever happened to Crosby after TNG is on her. I recall that she had a somewhat steady stream of work in various TV shows and b-movies, and then the work started to dry up. I am happy, though, that she's now a recurring character on the Walking Dead. But for Trek, perhaps her big mistake was voicing her concerns and then quitting, rather than voicing her concerns and waiting till the end of the season to see the outcome -- definitely a youthful mistake in the professional world. But I say that with the privilege of hindsight, too -- nobody was sure that TNG would survive, much less become the legend that it is today. Even Patrick Stewart didn't unpack his suitcase for weeks in case the show got cancelled and he needed to fly back to the UK.
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Old April 2 2014, 10:20 PM   #36
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Worf'sParmach wrote: View Post
Ro_Laren wrote: View Post
Worf'sParmach wrote: View Post
She may have made the wrong choice, but Michael Dorn should be sending her a Thank You card every year.
Can you imagine Tasha Yar on DS9 instead of Worf?
I actually think Tasha would have fit well on the DS9 island of misfit officers. But her character may have been too similar to Kira's for her to exist there.
TBH I never thought that Tasha was similar to Kira. Sure, they had a hard upbringing, but so did lots of other Trek characters.
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Old April 4 2014, 05:12 AM   #37
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Ro_Laren wrote: View Post
Worf'sParmach wrote: View Post
Ro_Laren wrote: View Post

Can you imagine Tasha Yar on DS9 instead of Worf?
I actually think Tasha would have fit well on the DS9 island of misfit officers. But her character may have been too similar to Kira's for her to exist there.
TBH I never thought that Tasha was similar to Kira. Sure, they had a hard upbringing, but so did lots of other Trek characters.
Well I think at least in a general sense they had similarities. Both women who had a very hard life and both have a temper.

Both their 1st season portrayals were pretty bad, but Kira had 7 years to improve. Tasha got about 1/2 a year, and total sum of her characterization is based on that.

Kira had 7 seasons to develop
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Old April 9 2014, 09:15 PM   #38
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Ro_Laren wrote: View Post
TBH I never thought that Tasha was similar to Kira. Sure, they had a hard upbringing, but so did lots of other Trek characters.
Yar and Kira's (heck even Ro Laren and B'Elanna Torres') characters have the same stereotypical "tough girl" trope. Cut her hair short, give her a rough childhood so that she trusts no one. Even better if you can pair her with another woman that's the exact opposite. Give her a distrust of authority, but a strong male commander to remind her of her place. As time progresses, let her hair get longer and then make her fall in love to show her what being a woman is really about. Bonus points if she gets pregnant. Character archetyping at its finest. Yar would have fit in on DS9, but she and Kira would have been filling the same niche (same as if Ro was on DS9 with Kira).
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Old April 9 2014, 10:02 PM   #39
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Worf'sParmach wrote: View Post
Ro_Laren wrote: View Post
TBH I never thought that Tasha was similar to Kira. Sure, they had a hard upbringing, but so did lots of other Trek characters.
Yar and Kira's (heck even Ro Laren and B'Elanna Torres') characters have the same stereotypical "tough girl" trope. Cut her hair short, give her a rough childhood so that she trusts no one. Even better if you can pair her with another woman that's the exact opposite. Give her a distrust of authority, but a strong male commander to remind her of her place. As time progresses, let her hair get longer and then make her fall in love to show her what being a woman is really about. Bonus points if she gets pregnant. Character archetyping at its finest. Yar would have fit in on DS9, but she and Kira would have been filling the same niche (same as if Ro was on DS9 with Kira).
I wish that Ro was on DS9 with Kira!
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Old April 10 2014, 10:14 AM   #40
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Odd, I would have liked to see Ro instead of Kira. Put simply Kira sometimes got on my nerves but I don't recall one Trek scene where I could say the same for the Ro character.

On the other hand, had they changed the Ro character to confirm to the new Kira character / role I would not have liked that (and we would have probably been deprived of "Preemptive Strike").

Bob
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Old April 10 2014, 04:28 PM   #41
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

A lot of Denise Crosby hate here. Funny how the Gates McFadden doesn't get similarly flogged for leaving, only to return back. McFadden's character was more important to the show, and her loss damaged the show more. If anything, Tasha's death strengthened the show by giving Data a barometer by which to measure his progress towards humanity--his grief.

The TNG cast was just way too big, and roles overlapped too much. Sela was by definition a more interesting character as a mixed-race Romulan reserved for guest-spots.
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Old April 10 2014, 04:59 PM   #42
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Funny how the Gates McFadden doesn't get similarly flogged for leaving, only to return back.
Based on information I've read, McFadden was fired, so her leaving wasn't the actor's choice.
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Old April 10 2014, 06:28 PM   #43
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Denise Crosby got impatient about her character development and wanted out before the end of Season One, Gates Mc Fadden got impatient because of sexual harrassment and wanted out after the first season had concluded and/or because she was asked to go (I recall vaguely from reading fan magazines back then, that all the actors and creative people - e.g. Andrew Probert - that had provided "feedback" once too often, were asked to leave. Paramount later adopted this open-submission policy for ideas and scripts but these weren't the days at the end of the first season).

Gates McFadden got back in because fans were campaigning for her return, Denise Crosby got back in because she was campaigning for her return. Andrew Probert didn't get back because fans, then, knew too little about his accomplishments and noble intentions (he was a continuity freak in the most positive sense).

So I'd think comparing the stories of both ladies would be like comparing apples with oranges.

Bob
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Old April 12 2014, 05:26 PM   #44
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Yes, McFadden was fired. Although she rarely talks about it, she recently said this.
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Old April 14 2014, 07:03 PM   #45
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Re: Did Denise Crosby Lobby for Sela to Appear on DS9?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Denise Crosby got impatient about her character development and wanted out before the end of Season One.
Though not at all denying it, this just makes zero sense to me. Talk about jumping the gun. Skin of Evil is episode 23/26. This means that, based on giving them time to write and develop the episode, she had to have put in her notice somewhere around the midway point of filiming the season. She knew that quickly that she didn't like her character development? No one had development at that point. I think she didn't think the show was going to be successful and wanted out ASAP, and then felt silly when her movie career went no where and the show took off.

I think the Tasha "hate" really just stems from the fact that she left so soon, and then how contrived (most) of her appearances were after that. I actually liked the character. She wasn't great, but no one was S1.
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