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Old March 13 2014, 09:47 PM   #46
Chemahkuu
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

BigJake wrote: View Post
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We were wisely spared Tom Bombadil.
They'd have needed to hand everyone who saw the film a bag of weed on the way in to survive it. IMHO.
Huh. Now that you mention it... perhaps Tom Bombadil has his uses after all...
Perhaps
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Old March 13 2014, 09:48 PM   #47
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

RAMA wrote: View Post
Oh theres certainly some pseudoscientific gobbledygook in it but generally, it is still top notch production, copied greatly to this day, and not remotely dated at all. In fact, Taken as a whole,its still the single most realistic all-encompassing vision of the future yet seen. Most other futuristic movies take bits and pieces of future speculation to fashion a story, Matrix doesnt skimp.
I'm not sure how "realistic" it is, BUT... it was ground-breaking in its special effects which were eventually emulated and parodied. And I thought the story was rather original if not invigorating with what it put your brain through.

When it comes to LOTR, I saw a similar level of effort in the special effects and the quality of everything about the film (taking all three as a whole). This is in part due to having seen the travelling exhibit and so many costumes, props, etc up close. Jackson accomplished what so very few people thought was even possible: bring the whole Lord of the Rings story to the big screen in a big and entertaining way that won't soon be matched by any film let alone a remake, considering the challenges presented and the quality of the resulting product.
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Old March 13 2014, 09:51 PM   #48
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Matrix already came up in this thread. I recently watched it again and was amazed at how bad it was. A big bag of pseudo-philosophical hot air. And the style and design... I couldn't stop cringing at those uber-serious guys with sunglasses in the dark and their leather outfits.
Matrix was always surprisingly intelligent for a wire-work chop-socky movie about Neuromancer inspired hacker badasses. That was never the same thing as its being actually intelligent; even with the original, you really had to squint to buy the "machines farming humans as an energy source" premise. And even then, the sequels dropped off pretty sharply in quality from the original.
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Old March 13 2014, 09:54 PM   #49
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

Some of the CGI is starting to look pretty aged, particularly in the first movie, but I think that has more to do with the evolution of CG effects than any fault of the films'. Otherwise I think the trilogy still holds up incredibly well, and will continue to do so for decades. I don't see anyone else trying another film adaptation of the trilogy for at least another twenty years.
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Old March 13 2014, 09:58 PM   #50
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

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"machines farming humans as an energy source" premise.
Well the first film implies we're only used to provide the electrical energy to run their actual plasma fusion reactors they need to live. That the Power Plant was a cruel, ironic punishment for humanity.

The sequels dropped this immediately.
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Old March 13 2014, 09:58 PM   #51
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

The only real CG thing that I think looks kinda crappy now is when Legolas is taking down the giant Elephant in "Return of the King." The way he slides off its trunk just looks ridiculous now.
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Old March 13 2014, 10:01 PM   #52
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

BigJake wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Matrix already came up in this thread. I recently watched it again and was amazed at how bad it was. A big bag of pseudo-philosophical hot air. And the style and design... I couldn't stop cringing at those uber-serious guys with sunglasses in the dark and their leather outfits.
Matrix was always surprisingly intelligent for a wire-work chop-socky movie about Neuromancer inspired hacker badasses. That was never the same thing as its being actually intelligent; even with the original, you really had to squint to buy the "machines farming humans as an energy source" premise. And even then, the sequels dropped off pretty sharply in quality from the original.
The premise is alright, but the emo leather fetish execution is cringe inducing. The stylized fight choreography and wire work is extremely dated as well. Matrix is my personal prime example of a hot air bubble. I gushed over it back then, but today it's laughable to me.
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Old March 13 2014, 10:24 PM   #53
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Matrix already came up in this thread. I recently watched it again and was amazed at how bad it was. A big bag of pseudo-philosophical hot air. And the style and design... I couldn't stop cringing at those uber-serious guys with sunglasses in the dark and their leather outfits.
Matrix was always surprisingly intelligent for a wire-work chop-socky movie about Neuromancer inspired hacker badasses. That was never the same thing as its being actually intelligent; even with the original, you really had to squint to buy the "machines farming humans as an energy source" premise. And even then, the sequels dropped off pretty sharply in quality from the original.
The premise is alright, but the emo leather fetish execution is cringe inducing. The stylized fight choreography and wire work is extremely dated as well. Matrix is my personal prime example of a hot air bubble. I gushed over it back then, but today it's laughable to me.
I still love the original Matrix because I love kung fu movies. (The shades-and-trenches Goth fashion pretension brings back memories too; I was never one of those kids but knew plenty of them, I still go to a monthly industrial night to get my dance fix. ) It's nonsense, but it's fun, and as a "Chosen One's story of self-discovery" thing it pretty much does what it needs to. I just don't think of it as anything more than well-executed junk culture on the level of The Legend of Drunken Master.

The sequels are much more painful. I defended The Matrix Reloaded at the time, but it's all but unwatchable for me today, and Revolutions even more so.
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Old March 13 2014, 11:25 PM   #54
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

Although the Watcher of Moria shot has, measurably aged badly, I love it. It is so awesome to see a unique creature inhabit a fantasy world, and just get added to the texture. Plus I love how it opens it's mouth.
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Old March 13 2014, 11:30 PM   #55
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

I absolutely love Matrix Reloaded. Aside from the rave scene. Revolutions, I am less praising of.
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Old March 14 2014, 12:14 AM   #56
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

You keep Tom Bombadil, you've got yourself a musical. On the other hand, if you lose Tom Bombadil, you lose the Barrow-wights, and if you lose the Barrow-wights, you lose the sword of Westernesse that Merry used to stab the Witch-king. But you replace it with the magic dagger given to Merry by Galadriel and it's all good, I guess.
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Old March 14 2014, 12:32 AM   #57
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

The tale holds up better in the film than with such a singular line of connected dots, don't you think though? Details can certainly be important, but I doubt they are critical in this case.
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Old March 14 2014, 12:35 AM   #58
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
You keep Tom Bombadil, you've got yourself a musical. On the other hand, if you lose Tom Bombadil, you lose the Barrow-wights, and if you lose the Barrow-wights, you lose the sword of Westernesse that Merry used to stab the Witch-king. But you replace it with the magic dagger given to Merry by Galadriel and it's all good, I guess.
I'd almost forgotten that, but it used to bug me too. I always wondered why Jackson didn't omit Bombadil but still insert a Barrow-downs sequence right before Bree. It seems like something he'd go for. Bombadil doesn't necessarily have to defeat the Barrow-wight; perhaps the creature is frightened off by a mysterious "strider" who then disappears. (At least until they get to Bree.) In the meantime they pick up the weapons from the barrow.

I suppose even if they had done that, it would be a little hard to explain onscreen what the connection was between the Witch-King and the sword of Westernesse. I guess if they just revert to "elf weapon = magic", then, as you say, it's all good.

Anyone know why Aragorn happened to be carrying around four hobbit-sized swords? It's not like Gandalf told him who to expect.
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Old March 14 2014, 02:08 AM   #59
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
You keep Tom Bombadil, you've got yourself a musical. On the other hand, if you lose Tom Bombadil, you lose the Barrow-wights, and if you lose the Barrow-wights, you lose the sword of Westernesse that Merry used to stab the Witch-king. But you replace it with the magic dagger given to Merry by Galadriel and it's all good, I guess.
I wasn't happy with the way they handled all the swords.
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Old March 14 2014, 03:41 AM   #60
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Re: Do you think LotR holds up?

Meh, the detail of the swords is reasonably cool if you can include it but far from necessary. The Witch-King is effectively killed by a Macbeth-style prophetic loophole that appears from nowhere anyway ("magic" in Tolkien's universe basically operated by dramatic convenience).
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