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Old March 14 2014, 07:13 AM   #76
bigdaddy
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

It seems to be increasingly likely that the plane was stolen and flown until....
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Old March 14 2014, 12:35 PM   #77
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

It sounds like there is at least some evidence the plane continued to fly for hours after it lost contact with the ground, based on the article EmoBorg linked (and which I've seen corroborated elsewhere.) That would point more toward a hijacking or some other nefarious action, though it would be nice to see considerably more information about that before drawing any conclusions. If engine data was being sent out, what did it contain? Probably no heading information, so it wouldn't be very useful for locating it. If it did continue to fly for a few more hours, that makes a systematic search virtually futile.
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Old March 14 2014, 02:23 PM   #78
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

A hijacking doesn't seem likely to me somehow. I mean, anything's possible, but I can't imagine why the pilots would cooperate with a hijacking after what happened on 9/11.
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Old March 14 2014, 02:37 PM   #79
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

But where did the plane end up? You'd think someone would've seen something...
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Old March 14 2014, 02:45 PM   #80
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

Peach Wookiee wrote: View Post
But where did the plane end up? You'd think someone would've seen something...
Over the ocean?

The latest theory has the plane landing on an island
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Old March 14 2014, 02:46 PM   #81
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

Peach Wookiee wrote: View Post
But where did the plane end up? You'd think someone would've seen something...
The plane is flying five-miles up over unpopulated expanses of water. What could anyone possibly see?!

If it was hijacked and landed somewhere it's likely in an unpopulated area or an area where people aren't keen to say, "Yeah, I totally saw that plane land in that area there operated by Al-Queda!"

If engine data was being sent out, what did it contain?
I suspect nothing more than just generic engine information in order to make sure maintenance cycles were being adhered to, the engines weren't being operated out of tolerance zones, or that the engines were just in general good-working order.

There seems to be *some* conflict between the various agencies involved on how true this engine-data from RR is, mostly Malaysian Airlines seems to be denying it but, really, it's not like they've been totally upfront about everything.

A hijacking doesn't seem likely to me somehow. I mean, anything's possible, but I can't imagine why the pilots would cooperate with a hijacking after what happened on 9/11.
I could be mis-remembering things but I think one of the questioned identities was one of the pilots. And while *American* pilots may be more cautious and less likely to cooperate in a hijacking what a Malaysian pilot would do is harder to discern especially when he flying over an unpopulated area and is thousands of miles away from anything "important."
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Old March 14 2014, 02:55 PM   #82
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

I meant as it was coming down.
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Old March 14 2014, 03:00 PM   #83
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

Peach Wookiee wrote: View Post
I meant as it was coming down.
There isn't someone everywhere. If the plane landed (or crashed) in a remote area no one would know it or see it.
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Old March 14 2014, 04:08 PM   #84
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
If engine data was being sent out, what did it contain?
I suspect nothing more than just generic engine information in order to make sure maintenance cycles were being adhered to, the engines weren't being operated out of tolerance zones, or that the engines were just in general good-working order.

There seems to be *some* conflict between the various agencies involved on how true this engine-data from RR is, mostly Malaysian Airlines seems to be denying it but, really, it's not like they've been totally upfront about everything.
Here's what I read somewhere last night or this morning (or maybe it was on the radio?): Boeing has a service that collects engine data by satellite transmission. Malaysia Airlines doesn't subscribe to the service, so the data isn't transmitted, but the system still continually pings the satellite. If that's true, then they don't have actual data from the plane, just attempts to communicate with the system. While not as helpful as actual data that might contain information regarding airspeed, fuel consumption, etc., it at least indicates the plane was operating.
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Old March 14 2014, 04:17 PM   #85
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

I wonder if that system has an independent battery-operated power supply. If so, the plane may not necessarily have been flying during that period, the system just may have survived the breakup/crash and continued answering pings until its power supply gave out/drowned/whatever. If the power supply is not independent, of course, the only option is that the plane remained intact and (presumably) aloft for that period.
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Old March 14 2014, 04:21 PM   #86
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

Btw. why is it even possible to manually turn off the transponder in a commercial airplane?
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Old March 14 2014, 04:34 PM   #87
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/11/us/mal...rch/index.html

Crowdsourcing volunteers comb satellite photos for Malaysia Airlines jet

You -- the person now reading this story -- can help experts solve the mystery of what happened to Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which disappeared over the open sea.

In fact, thousands of aspiring good Samaritans are volunteering their time to scour part of the plane's search zone using detailed satellite images posted online by DigitalGlobe, a Colorado firm that owns one of the world's most advanced commercial satellite networks.

So many volunteers have joined the effort that the firm's website -- with its pinpoint pictures of everything floating in the ocean -- has crashed.

...

"In many cases, the areas covered are so large, or the things we're looking for are so hard to find, that without the help of hundreds of thousands of people online, we'd never be able to find them," Barrington said.

...
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Old March 14 2014, 04:49 PM   #88
Ugly Sweater
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

Roger Wilco wrote: View Post
Btw. why is it even possible to manually turn off the transponder in a commercial airplane?
There are times when you don't need it, particularly on the ground or times when it might be malfunctioning and causing more problems than it is worth.
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Old March 14 2014, 04:52 PM   #89
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
I wonder if that system has an independent battery-operated power supply. If so, the plane may not necessarily have been flying during that period, the system just may have survived the breakup/crash and continued answering pings until its power supply gave out/drowned/whatever. If the power supply is not independent, of course, the only option is that the plane remained intact and (presumably) aloft for that period.
Yeah, I wondered the same thing. Unfortunately, the report where I got the information didn't answer any of those questions. They didn't say so, but I did get the impression that the system only pings the satellite when the engines are actually operating. If that's the case, then the engines were either running during that time, or the system is powered by an independent power source and the destruction of the plane also caused a malfunction in the system such that it kept trying to communicate.

Or this could all be wrong, as so many other reports are.
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Old March 14 2014, 05:00 PM   #90
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Re: Malaysian airliner feared lost..

farmkid wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
If engine data was being sent out, what did it contain?
I suspect nothing more than just generic engine information in order to make sure maintenance cycles were being adhered to, the engines weren't being operated out of tolerance zones, or that the engines were just in general good-working order.

There seems to be *some* conflict between the various agencies involved on how true this engine-data from RR is, mostly Malaysian Airlines seems to be denying it but, really, it's not like they've been totally upfront about everything.
Here's what I read somewhere last night or this morning (or maybe it was on the radio?): Boeing has a service that collects engine data by satellite transmission. Malaysia Airlines doesn't subscribe to the service, so the data isn't transmitted, but the system still continually pings the satellite. If that's true, then they don't have actual data from the plane, just attempts to communicate with the system. While not as helpful as actual data that might contain information regarding airspeed, fuel consumption, etc., it at least indicates the plane was operating.
Boeing installs a system ARS on the 777s but it's Rolls Royce that would be collecting the engine data (the MAS 777 had Trent 800s).

When you put Rolls Royce engines on your jet, you don't own them, you lease them. As part of the lease service, RR providing a monitoring service keep track of how their engines are performing.

So when the QANTAS A380 had it's engine come apart a few years back, RR knew all about it.

Not sure about the idea of landing the aircraft on Island - you don't put a 777 down on dime. The runway would need to take a 200 tonne aircraft and be at least 1km long.

Then it was hijacked to be parted out that wouldn't be an easy task. The parts of the airframe that are really valuable (engines, avionics, landing gear) are serialized up the wazoo and those numbers of tracked because to keep licences airlines have to maintain records and details of what's fitted to their aircraft and by whom.
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