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Old April 9 2014, 08:15 AM   #1
Vanyel
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Seven's age.

What should we go by to determine her actual age. Her body's age or her time "alive."

Please hear me out.

Looking through Memory Alpha we see:

She was born Annika Hansen on stardate 25479 (2350)...She was assimilated by the Borg in 2356 at age six...Annika was then placed in a maturation chamber...eventually emerging as a Borg drone in 2361. She spent the next thirteen years of her life in the Collective with the designation Seven of Nine...Seven of Nine remained a Borg drone until 2374.
Using the dates used by MA She has been alive for 24 years.
2374-2350=24.

However, her body was aged from a 6 year old to an adult in 5 years. For arguments sake, let's agree she emerged from the chamber with the body of an 18 year old. Then she was a Borg Drone for 13 years, making her body 31 years old.

So in determining her age, do we simply use her years alive; or do we use her body's age?

I say she's 31 during the events of Scorpion. Because the Maturation Chamber aged her body quickly to make her a drone.

What say you?
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Old April 9 2014, 08:22 AM   #2
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Re: Seven's age.

The Borg speed up the aging of children so that they can be useful drones.

The same process, or a completely different is probably used to retard their ageing.

It's possible that she has looked 27 since she was 12, and would have continued to look 27 for the next 5 centuries if she hadn't made a break for it.
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Old April 9 2014, 08:30 AM   #3
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Re: Seven's age.

I date by her birth year. In TOS: The Deadly Years, when Kirk was afflicted with the rapid aging disease, he had the physical infirmities of a 70 year old man, but he was still only 34 years old. In TNG: Unnatural Selection, there is a 12 year old boy who looks like he's 20, but he's still 12.
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Old April 9 2014, 08:59 AM   #4
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Re: Seven's age.

Growing up I never saw the pilot to Thundercats, so I always thought that it was odd that Liono wasn't making kittens with all the good looking pussycat girls he ran away to Earth with... But it turned out that in the pilot Liono was an 8 year old cub, who had been in a dodgy stasis tube that took 10 formative years frorm him. Mind of an 8 year old in the body of a 18 year old, so no wonder that series was the mother of all cluster####s.
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Old April 9 2014, 10:50 AM   #5
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Re: Seven's age.

I think keeping track of character's ages in space, subject to relativity, should be virtually impossible. Time should not be passing at the same rate on the USS Voyager as it does on Earth. It's one of those things Trek likes to ignore, but I find it pretty useful when it comes to reconciling contradictory ages (like Chekov and AU Chekov)
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Old April 9 2014, 11:01 AM   #6
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Re: Seven's age.

Relativity doesn't count in these circumstances.

Full impulse is .25 C

You don't start hitting noticeable/usable time dilation issues till you're past .95 C, which you avoid completely if you are using subspace science and warp fields to trick the universe into ignoring it's own rules.
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Old April 9 2014, 11:22 AM   #7
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Re: Seven's age.

Vanyel wrote: View Post
She was born Annika Hansen on stardate 25479 (2350)...She was assimilated by the Borg in 2356 at age six.

...

What say you?
Well, for a start, if Annika was six when she was assimilated, then this is a three year old:



And the stardate of 25479 is actually 2348. Season 1 of TNG is in the 41000 range and set in 2364. Going with the oft-accepted 1000 starunits make a year, then 25479 is 16 years earlier, which makes it 2348, not 2350.

Going with a 2348 birth year means the girl in the above picture is five, not three, which is much more believable. After all, Annika wasn't acting like a three year old, she seemed much more mature to me. And she certainly didn't look like a three year old either.

And yes, this would make her eight when she was assimilated, but the line, "My cake had six candles, and one more to grow on... and then the men came" can't be taken to imply that she was assimilated shortly after her 6th birthday. She's remembering literally from another life, and who has clear memories from that age anyway? It's entirely plausible that she was assimilated shortly after turning 8, and just remembered the birthday with the six candles and one more, and associated the 8th birthday with the 6th.
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Old April 9 2014, 01:26 PM   #8
JarodRussell
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Re: Seven's age.

Why do you have 7 candles on your 8th birthday cake?
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Old April 9 2014, 06:55 PM   #9
davidant32
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Re: Seven's age.

I've learned through life experience that it is probably just better to avoid the topic of age altogether when it comes to the fairer sex.
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Old April 9 2014, 09:46 PM   #10
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Re: Seven's age.

davidant32 wrote: View Post
I've learned through life experience that it is probably just better to avoid the topic of age altogether when it comes to the fairer sex.
I have the feeling though, that even after being on Earth and dealing with a far greater number of humans than she had post-liberation but pre-Endgame, Annika still would not likely blanch at giving a straightforward answer to the question if proffered.
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Old April 9 2014, 11:05 PM   #11
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Re: Seven's age.

What if she starts counting the years she spent awake in Unimatrix Zero?

Add it all up and that's probably another ten or 20 years, if computerized AR is even a little faster than regular reality...

Does Miles O'Brien add those 20 years he spent in AR prison to his birthday cake?
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Old April 9 2014, 11:11 PM   #12
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Re: Seven's age.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Does Miles O'Brien add those 20 years he spent in AR prison to his birthday cake?
Does it mean Picard should include that whole other life he lived in "The Inner Light"? Should he add another 20 or 30 years of life experience because he was in a dream for 20 minutes?
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Old April 10 2014, 12:24 AM   #13
Guy Gardener
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Re: Seven's age.

Yup.

Just like he should still be celebrating the birthdays of his wife, children and grand children.
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Old April 10 2014, 02:23 AM   #14
Vanyel
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Re: Seven's age.

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Vanyel wrote: View Post
She was born Annika Hansen on stardate 25479 (2350)...She was assimilated by the Borg in 2356 at age six.

...

What say you?
Well, for a start, if Annika was six when she was assimilated, then this is a three year old:



And the stardate of 25479 is actually 2348. Season 1 of TNG is in the 41000 range and set in 2364. Going with the oft-accepted 1000 starunits make a year, then 25479 is 16 years earlier, which makes it 2348, not 2350.

Going with a 2348 birth year means the girl in the above picture is five, not three, which is much more believable. After all, Annika wasn't acting like a three year old, she seemed much more mature to me. And she certainly didn't look like a three year old either.

And yes, this would make her eight when she was assimilated, but the line, "My cake had six candles, and one more to grow on... and then the men came" can't be taken to imply that she was assimilated shortly after her 6th birthday. She's remembering literally from another life, and who has clear memories from that age anyway? It's entirely plausible that she was assimilated shortly after turning 8, and just remembered the birthday with the six candles and one more, and associated the 8th birthday with the 6th.
That simply adds two years to then number of years she existed. 26 instead of 24. But that doesn't take into account her body's forced growth in the Maturation Chamber. She would still be, again only for the sake of argument, 18 when she emerged from the chamber and then spent the next 13 years as a Drone until the events of Scorpion.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
What if she starts counting the years she spent awake in Unimatrix Zero?
In Unimatrix Zero, all the drones appeared to be the ages they were already. The children would be drones in a MC. The adults would be whatever physical age they were as Drones.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Does Miles O'Brien add those 20 years he spent in AR prison to his birthday cake?
Melakon wrote: View Post
Does it mean Picard should include that whole other life he lived in "The Inner Light"? Should he add another 20 or 30 years of life experience because he was in a dream for 20 minutes?
I think no to both. Picard and O'Brien never had their actual bodies aged. Memories were implanted. One a lifetime of memories and a skill added, the other had years added. In the end their bodies never aged. They just have memories of things that never happened to them.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
It's possible that she has looked 27 since she was 12, and would have continued to look 27 for the next 5 centuries if she hadn't made a break for it.
That is a strong possibility, as we've never seen an Octogenarian Human drone. But it could also be that once a drone reaches a point where it's body is of no use to the Collective the drone is disconnected from the Collective and dies.
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--Julia Sugarbaker
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Old April 10 2014, 03:02 AM   #15
Guy Gardener
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Re: Seven's age.

Did Magnus and his missus Drones look 60 to 70 years old when we saw then in modern day near the end of Dark Frontier?
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