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Old March 7 2014, 07:51 AM   #16
Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

I'm... cooperating. I'm cooperating here!
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Old March 7 2014, 08:21 AM   #17
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

"
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Old March 7 2014, 08:57 AM   #18
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Go Bears.
...not sure if that was it...

...how about,

"...sad faces, painted over with those magazine smiles...headed out for somewhere...won't be back...for awhile...

Ann and Nancy Wilson, twins on the Pleasure Planet Risa...

...deleted scenes: content...
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Old March 7 2014, 10:53 AM   #19
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

Iím not the greatest Cohen Brothers fan in the world. Iíve never understood the hoo-hah about the Big Lebowski, and The Man Who Wasnít There did such a good job of creating a man with no personality that I ended up not caring. Fargo though, Fargoís brilliant on just about every level. Funny, unique, heartrending, touching, disturbing, and the fact that so many people die pointlessly just makes the story all the sadder. From people who just happen to be driving along the wrong bit of road at the wrong time, to Buscemi whoís killed because he argues about a fucking car when heís got a shed load of money stashed somewhere else... Iím not sure Macy or McDormand have ever been better.

No Country For Old Men Iím less sure of. Itís a very good film, but I found it jarring when the focus shifted from Brolin to Tommy Lee Jones, in particular the fact we donít see Brolinís final shootout caught me off guard. Of course in hindsight I realise the film isnít about Brolin, itís about Sheriff Bell all along, but it did leave me feeling a little short changed. That said it has three stand out scenes, all involving Bardem. The scene with Chigurh in the gas station is one of the tensest things Iíve ever seen, even though the gas station attendant gets lucky, and the scene with Chigurh and Woody Harlson is almost as good, because we know heís going to kill him, but waiting for him to do it is agonizing. Then thereís the final scene with Kelly Macdonald where she refuses to play his game.

Iím vaguely interested in the FX series now I realise itís only loosely based on the film.
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Old March 7 2014, 07:02 PM   #20
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

Starkers wrote: View Post
Iíve never understood the hoo-hah about the Big Lebowski
Never understood? Fuuuck ME. ...I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos.
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Old March 9 2014, 09:32 AM   #21
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

I know the Coens are not known for actually "writing" anything in any real depth, but the one plot point about Fargo that needed some attention was what happened to Lundergaard's kid, who seemed to be a character in the film.

Ugh. I realized his life was screwed by what happened with his dad, but the screenplay confuses this with the fact that they just got halfway through the screenplay before they realized they didn't want to write that character anymore.

Yes, the Coens are the laziest screenwriters ever.
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Old March 9 2014, 09:58 AM   #22
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I know the Coens are not known for actually "writing" anything in any real depth...
Quite the contrary.
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Old March 9 2014, 06:16 PM   #23
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Yes, the Coens are the laziest screenwriters ever.
Your criticisms don't seem quite substantive enough to counter their two screenwriting Oscars and two WGA awards.
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Old March 9 2014, 06:48 PM   #24
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Yes, the Coens are the laziest screenwriters ever.
Your criticisms don't seem quite substantive enough to counter their two screenwriting Oscars and two WGA awards.
I'm actually looking at the films themselves. You are talking about an appeal to popularity.

Both Fargo and No Country are underwritten movies. One tells us that there are nasty people who care only about money, and others who happen upon them can die (but it's random) and the other film tells us that there are nasty people who care only about money, and others who happen upon them can die (but it's random).

I prefer to have a screenplay that actually gets under the skin of the characters, that actually challenges us to really think about what's happening. I prefer a screenplay wherein all talents to make a film would need to be brought to bear in order to produce it. The same year NCFOM came out, another film came out wherein the murderer was never caught. It was called Zodiac. Yet, this ending, which like No Country, was also unresolved, we have gone through a journey of interesting inquiry, and character study that probes very deeply. All of the characters in No Country for Old Men were moron, and while the Coens wasted ten to fifteen of valuable screen-time watching the bad guy take a bath to heal his injuries, we were watching Greysmith and Avery contend with the problems of not having caught a killer despite the fact that he let dozens of clues.
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Old March 9 2014, 07:14 PM   #25
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"Underwritten?" Yeah, if you say so...

No Country For Old Men certainly inspired many viewers "to think about what's happening." You obviously didn't connect with the material, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean the material wasn't there.

Also, calling the Coen brothers "the laziest screenwriters ever" is just an exercise in attention-grabbing hyperbole.
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Old March 9 2014, 07:22 PM   #26
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

Also, calling the Coen brothers "the laziest screenwriters ever" is just an exercise in attention-grabbing hyperbole.
No. I demonstrated it. Where's Jerry's son? Drops off after half the film.

I can keep demonstrating it. The little conversation about the twin cities and pancakes that happens between the two killers is hardly screenwriting, let alone good screenwriting.

The idea of flipping a coin to decide someone's fate is hardly as profound or original the Coens want us to think it is.

Both films are populated by moronic characters each of whom make moronic mistakes. It's not all that hard to write moronic characters. It's a little harder to write smart ones. Takes a but of effort.

As I indicated, what I'm saying isn't universal Jerry Lundergaard might be a moron, but the screenplay and the actor) did a pretty decent job of exploring his world collapsing as his scheme goes wrong. I give most of the credit to the actor.

But both films would rather be over and done as fast as possible without actually probing any of the issues they actually bring up.
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Old March 9 2014, 07:29 PM   #27
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

The only point worth reiterating: yeah, if you say so.
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Old March 9 2014, 07:45 PM   #28
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Where's Jerry's son? Drops off after half the film.
What would Little Lundegaard bring to the storytelling? What role would he play in Jerry being arrested, or in Marge shooting Grimsrud? Having him there was not necessary because he wasn't integral to the story being told. In fact, he never was, which is why he was an incidental character.
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Old March 9 2014, 08:11 PM   #29
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Re: "Fargo" becomes a minii-series

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I'm actually looking at the films themselves. You are talking about an appeal to popularity.
Popularity maybe, but popularity among people who actually write screenplays and have more insight into that craft than your average guy shooting his mouth off on the internet.

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Also, calling the Coen brothers "the laziest screenwriters ever" is just an exercise in attention-grabbing hyperbole.
No. I demonstrated it. Where's Jerry's son? Drops off after half the film.
And that proves they are the "laziest screenwriters ever"? Apparently you have no grasp of the meaning of "demonstrated." Nor have you much grasp of how incidental characters are handled in countless screenplays.

I can keep demonstrating it. The little conversation about the twin cities and pancakes that happens between the two killers is hardly screenwriting, let alone good screenwriting.

The idea of flipping a coin to decide someone's fate is hardly as profound or original the Coens want us to think it is.
Because...?

You seem to have some kind of chip on your shoulder about what certain people "want us to think" or want to "fool you" into thinking, but that really has nothing to do with the actual film itself. The "flaws" you've pointed out in the films above have been shown to be wrong or misinterpretations. If you don't like a movie, fine, but if you want your opinion on widely-acclaimed movies to be taken seriously you should be able to offer a defense of your position that amounts to something more than "It sucked!"
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Old March 9 2014, 08:14 PM   #30
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Incidental, save for the fact that he was important. Ebert and Sskel even talk about hi going to McDonald's as a great detail in their gushing review. But the Coens were too lazy to write this character.
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