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Old March 7 2014, 04:58 AM   #31
Mister Fandango
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Your examples do not prove a demand to the general population--the movie-going population who are the kind most likely to see another SW film.

Sith stories are fanboy territory with no widespread appeal. If the SW (the original) only focused on villains, 1977 would have been the beginning and end of the concept.
It's a good thing no one is asking for the franchise to only be about villains or the Sith, then.

And as he pointed out, some of the most critically acclaimed and beloved movies of people on this very forum are all about villains. Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Boondock Saints (say what you will, but they were murderers, even if they had a just cause), and Snatch are all examples right off the top of my head.
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Old March 7 2014, 05:44 AM   #32
Ancient Mariner
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
You mean just like true Jedi only use the light side, even though there's plenty that don't? And, as proven in my previous post, there have been Light Sith.
You mean, the Light Sith who were hunted down and eliminated because they were not "pure" enough Sith ... because they followed the Light of "compassion and love" that turned them from the inherently evil Sith Code (which preaches that peace is a lie and that repeats, through the embrace of conflict - i.e. "peace is a lie" - "I gain strength ... I gain power ... I gain victory" ... "my chains are broken" and "free me" without reference to the betterment of anyone else)? You mean the Light Sith who actively sought to destroy the collected works of the pure, evil (selfish, non-compassionate) Sith?

Or, in other words, the Light Sith, who wanted to act compassionately, and actively sought to destroy the knowledge of the "pure" Sith, didn't follow the inherently evil Sith Code. That is what made them Light. Because they rejected the Dark of the inherently evil Sith Code.
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Old March 7 2014, 09:26 AM   #33
Wadjda
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
DDD...D Unit wrote: View Post
What exactly are we rooting for then? The Sith are evil. They aren't anti-heroes.
They can still be fascinating. Who were you rooting for in Reservoir Dogs?

It's not like there is no demand for it:





CW had at least 2 arcs with dark siders as protagonists.
Your examples do not prove a demand to the general population--the movie-going population who are the kind most likely to see another SW film.

Sith stories (anything EU) are fanboy territory with no widespread appeal. If the SW (the original) only focused on villains, 1977 would have been the beginning and end of the concept.
SWTOR cost 200 mill. It's indicative of the demand out there.
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Old March 7 2014, 01:28 PM   #34
Mister Fandango
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

Ancient Mariner wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
You mean just like true Jedi only use the light side, even though there's plenty that don't? And, as proven in my previous post, there have been Light Sith.
You mean, the Light Sith who were hunted down
Yep! The ones who, you know, existed, despite your claims that they couldn't. Those ones.

Just like the Dark Jedi, who are also hunted down whenever possible by those "peace loving" Jedi.
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Old March 7 2014, 02:24 PM   #35
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
It's a good thing no one is asking for the franchise to only be about villains or the Sith, then.
He's asking for a "Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff," which is the polar opposite of what SW is about. SW is universally (i.e. to the mainstream moviegoer) seen as about the journey of an ultra heroic young man (and assorted allies), that is the public focus of SW.

The Sith are merely antagonists, but not the driving characters or plot of SW. Their effect is only there to see how the hero reacts/learns from his struggles. That is why the original trilogy worked so well.

This latter day focus on Sith is the interest of fanboys overdosing on EU--not the mainstream.

And as he pointed out, some of the most critically acclaimed and beloved movies of people on this very forum are all about villains.
...which has no bearing on a series about the journey of a hero. Star Wars is Star Wars, not Reservoir Dogs, or any other exercise in nihilistic behavior, so "well, it works in other films" does not apply at all.
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Old March 7 2014, 05:00 PM   #36
Wadjda
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

...which has no bearing on a series about the journey of a hero. Star Wars is Star Wars, not Reservoir Dogs, or any other exercise in nihilistic behavior, so "well, it works in other films" does not apply at all.
STar Wars = conflict in a sci fi setting. Disney will milk tot he bone so it could happen. We already had Sith centric CW episodes.

He's asking for a "Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff," which is the polar opposite of what SW is about.
Every formula gets boring after a while.

This latter day focus on Sith is the interest of fanboys overdosing on EU--not the mainstream.
If they do a movie like that right it will be part of the mainstream.
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Old March 8 2014, 05:03 PM   #37
Set Harth
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
You mean just like true Jedi only use the light side, even though there's plenty that don't?
Such as? Don't tell me you're just talking about the certainly-not-in-any-way-doomed Anakin Skywalker again. That's all of one person, I don't think he qualifies as a "plenty".

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
And, as proven in my previous post, there have been Light Sith. It's a fact. Stomping your feet and trying to claim otherwise just makes you more wrong than you were to begin with. Utterly, completely, and embarrassingly wrong.
So, super double plus wrong then?

Again, a light side user wouldn't pass muster as a Sith Lord in Bane's order, Krayt's order, etc. Just ask Gravid. It's the difference between being a true Sith and just someone who does whatever they want and still humorously insists on being called "Sith" in essentially meaningless fashion.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
The Sith code is not evil.
What defines a true Sith is adherence to the dark side, and that correlates with evil because of the nature of the dark side.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Except that they are, because that's what makes them a Jedi; being in the Jedi Order.
The fallen never stay in the order for long once found out. I wonder why that is? Probably has to do with the whole corruption thing and the Jedi not wanting darksiders in their midst. But what do they know? By all means keep clinging to the "laminated Jedi membership card" mentality - I'm sure that's not, you know, entirely meaningless in the eyes of the Force or anything.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Just like the Dark Jedi, who are also hunted down whenever possible by those "peace loving" Jedi.
Dark Jedi, you say? But I thought it was all about titles and organizations. Surely you know that so-called "Dark Jedi" are actually not members of the Jedi organization ( the above quote basically says as much ) and don't have the coveted Jedi title, so they don't really do much to help your position.
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Old March 8 2014, 05:39 PM   #38
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

I'll just reply with one question, and then I'm done. You can't argue with rabid fanboys foaming at the mouth, regardless of how illogical or ridiculous they're being.

The question: If you're a Jedi just because you use the light side of the force, and you're a Sith just because you use the dark side of the force, why the fuck are there both Dark Jedi and Light Sith in the franchise?

And I'm done.
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Old March 8 2014, 06:01 PM   #39
Set Harth
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

You were already done before that.
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Old March 8 2014, 06:05 PM   #40
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

Because being a Jedi means more than just using the Light Side of the Force. Being a Sith means more than just using the Dark Side of the Force.

A Light Sith is not a true Sith, because that individual is making use of the Light Side (love and compassion) and is not, therefore strictly adhering to the inherently evil Sith Code (which is what makes one a true Sith). Nor is a Dark Jedi a true Jedi, because that individual is making use of the Dark Side (aggression, fear, power).

It's worth noting that both types of individuals, once they are discovered, are at the very least cast out of their respective orders (and, in many cases, are hunted down).
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Old March 8 2014, 07:48 PM   #41
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

A Sith that doesn't use the Dark Side would be weird and I don't think it's fundamentally possible to use the powers of the Dark Side for good - at least, not in the long term. There seems to be two ways to be able to use the force effectively. One seems to involve lots of deep breaths and meditation and concentration. The other seems to be harvesting anger, hatred, etc. and using that to control the force. I think of it as similar to that time that Harry tried to use the Crucio curse and it didn't work because he didn't truly have hatred in his heart and truly want to inflict pain on another person. The feelings and emotions that power the Dark Side, when used long-term, are not conducive for good will to man.

Given this, I think the film would have to be on Siths as villains. I don't think this is a problem. Sony is making a Sinister Six movie, iirc. I also think we should avoid a tragedy of someone who gets seduced by the Dark Side because we've literally just had that.
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Old March 8 2014, 08:57 PM   #42
Gaith
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

What I want to know is, do Sith have sex drives? Did the Emperor keep a harem of slave girls? Or are they all merely evil in the philosphical, red-lightsaber sense?
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Old March 9 2014, 07:25 AM   #43
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Jedi are defined by their avoidance of the dark side, while Sith are defined by their adherence to the dark side.
Yup. A Light Sith sounds like Sith-lite to me. Definitely not movie material.


Gaith wrote: View Post
What I want to know is, do Sith have sex drives? Did the Emperor keep a harem of slave girls? Or are they all merely evil in the philosphical, red-lightsaber sense?
Naah, nothing like that. Obviously since the Jedi Order forbids relationships, the Sith went the opposite route. They fall in love, get married, raise lots of kids, keep dogs and cats, take care of their parents in their old age, have lots of picnics and barbecues with all the neighbors, and slaughter anyone who messes with their family.

Kind of like "The Godfather" with lightsabers.
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Old March 9 2014, 09:13 AM   #44
Wadjda
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

Gaith wrote: View Post
What I want to know is, do Sith have sex drives? Did the Emperor keep a harem of slave girls? Or are they all merely evil in the philosphical, red-lightsaber sense?
Some of the had families during the New Sith Wars. that's the closest thing i could think of. Look up Odion on Wookiepedia.
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Old March 9 2014, 05:52 PM   #45
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Re: Star Wars Sith-centric spinoff

It's worth pointing out that both the Jedi and Sith codes are inventions of the EU, and therefore their canonicity was always dubious. Even moreso now that vast stretches of the EU are about to be officially turned into toilet paper.
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