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Old March 2 2014, 04:15 PM   #1
Thrawn
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Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

So there's this little nest of continuity I haven't explored yet, and I'm wondering if you all would help me with reading order or any connections I've missed.

These stories are all related, as far as I can tell:

- Eugenics Wars
- To Reign In Hell
- Assignment: Eternity
- From History's Shadow
- The Aliens Are Coming
- (?) The Rings Of Time and DTI: Forgotten History (?)

And they pull continuity references from these episodes:

- TOS: Assignment: Earth
- TOS: Space Seed & The Wrath of Khan (clearly)
- DS9: Little Green Men
- VOY: Future's End
- ENT: Carbon Creek

If I want to explore this bit of continuity:

1) What order should I read those books in, and how are Rings and Forgotten History related?
2) Have I missed any other stories or TV episodes that are connected?

Thanks!
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Old March 2 2014, 04:49 PM   #2
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

Given that Eugenics Wars is about Khan on Earth, and To Reign in Hell is about Khan's time on Ceti Alpha V, I think the order there's fairly apparent.

DTI: Forgotten History predictably covers a few different periods, but most of it is set during the TOS era...but several different parts of it. As a result I'm not sure there's a spot where it clearly fits, though before TWoK for all of the TOS stuff seems reasonable IIRC.
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Old March 2 2014, 06:07 PM   #3
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

I'd start with From History's Shadow because it precedes the other works in-universe, and spoilers non of them either.
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Old March 2 2014, 06:18 PM   #4
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

Thrawn wrote: View Post

1) What order should I read those books in, and how are Rings and Forgotten History related?
2) Have I missed any other stories or TV episodes that are connected?

Thanks!
1) Honestly, Rings and Forgotten History aren't really related. Christopher was nice enough to reference my book in his book and I made an effort not to contradict his, but it's not like there was some master plan or continuing story arc involved; both books were more or less written independently of each other. Rings is largely a standalone TOS adventure that shares one character with my Eugenics Wars books but was deliberately written to be accessible to readers who hadn't read those older books. (I made a point of keeping any references to the EW books to a minimum.)

2) Regarding TV episodes, you might also want to check out:

TOS: "Tomorrow is Yesterday"
TOS: "Requiem for Methuselah"
TNG: "The Neutral Zone."
Voyager: "11:59"
Voyager: "Future's End."

In the EW books, I tried to reference pretty much every character or episode involving the twentieth century, with the notable exception of Edith Keeler and "City on the Edge of Forever." And Rings of Time was very much inspired by "Tomorrow is Yesterday."
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Old March 2 2014, 06:31 PM   #5
Thrawn
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

Awesome, thanks.

Yeah, I read the EW books when I was in high school and hadn't seen any of those episodes except the TNG one. I was only really a TNG fan at the time, but the premise sounded fun enough that I bought the EW books anyway. I remember them being pretty neat, but definitely feeling like I was missing a bunch of references. I had so much fun reading No Time Like the Past that I feel like giving them another shot, but I want to catch up on my TV episodes first

I appreciate the reply.

One last question - Assignment: Eternity before or after Eugenics Wars?
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Old March 2 2014, 06:35 PM   #6
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

How much is Assignment: Eternity connected to the EW books?
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Old March 2 2014, 06:39 PM   #7
Greg Cox
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

Thrawn wrote: View Post

One last question - Assignment: Eternity before or after Eugenics Wars?
Yikes. Would you believe I actually had to look that up?

But apparently Assignment: Eternity begins in 1969, whereas the EW books begin in 1974.

(Thank you, Star Trek: Voyages of the Imagination.)
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Old March 2 2014, 06:41 PM   #8
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

And is "The Aliens Are Coming" included in "From History's Shadow", or worth reading on its own?
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Old March 2 2014, 07:09 PM   #9
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

Thrawn wrote: View Post
And is "The Aliens Are Coming" included in "From History's Shadow", or worth reading on its own?
Dayton incorporated "The Aliens are Coming!" into From History's Shadow, so you don't really need to read it separately.
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Old March 2 2014, 07:29 PM   #10
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

In fact, From History's Shadow presents a slightly different version of the events of "The Aliens Are Coming!", told from a different perspective and with a slightly changed ending. So they're maybe alternate-timeline versions of the same event.

As far as interconnections go, Shadow is actually connected to elements of both DTI: Watching the Clock and Forgotten History. The references to FH are relatively minor, more just a matter of staying consistent (although FHS's frame story takes place very shortly after Chapter II of FH). But the plot of FHS meshes well with the suggestions I made in WTC about Temporal Cold War involvement in 20th-century Trek-universe events, and I'm pretty sure that was intentional on Dayton's part (at least Kevin Dilmore seemed to think so when I talked to him about it). So I think FHS makes a good companion piece for the DTI novels. And it's also a good companion piece for Greg's Gary Seven novels, since it features Roberta Lincoln. So Dayton's book is kind of the nexus that ties Greg's books and mine together. Not that we weren't already trying to be consistent, but there's not much overlap except in FHS.

To Reign in Hell doesn't connect to any of the 20th-century or time-travel stuff, since it's the story of Khan and his people on Ceti Alpha V. And The Rings of Time, as Greg said, is pretty standalone, albeit consistent with the rest.
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Old March 2 2014, 07:40 PM   #11
Greg Cox
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

Christopher wrote: View Post

To Reign in Hell doesn't connect to any of the 20th-century or time-travel stuff, since it's the story of Khan and his people on Ceti Alpha V. And The Rings of Time, as Greg said, is pretty standalone, albeit consistent with the rest.
The main connection between the EW books and Rings is Shaun Christopher, a character mentioned in the TOS episode "Tomorrow is Yesterday."

Shaun plays a small part in the EW books, but is one of the main characters in Rings.
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Old March 2 2014, 07:53 PM   #12
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Yikes. Would you believe I actually had to look that up?

But apparently Assignment: Eternity begins in 1969, whereas the EW books begin in 1974.
Hah; that's funny

Christopher wrote: View Post
In fact, From History's Shadow presents a slightly different version of the events of "The Aliens Are Coming!", told from a different perspective and with a slightly changed ending. So they're maybe alternate-timeline versions of the same event.

As far as interconnections go, Shadow is actually connected to elements of both DTI: Watching the Clock and Forgotten History. The references to FH are relatively minor, more just a matter of staying consistent (although FHS's frame story takes place very shortly after Chapter II of FH). But the plot of FHS meshes well with the suggestions I made in WTC about Temporal Cold War involvement in 20th-century Trek-universe events, and I'm pretty sure that was intentional on Dayton's part (at least Kevin Dilmore seemed to think so when I talked to him about it). So I think FHS makes a good companion piece for the DTI novels. And it's also a good companion piece for Greg's Gary Seven novels, since it features Roberta Lincoln. So Dayton's book is kind of the nexus that ties Greg's books and mine together. Not that we weren't already trying to be consistent, but there's not much overlap except in FHS.

To Reign in Hell doesn't connect to any of the 20th-century or time-travel stuff, since it's the story of Khan and his people on Ceti Alpha V. And The Rings of Time, as Greg said, is pretty standalone, albeit consistent with the rest.
This is super helpful; thanks.

If I have never seen Enterprise, which episodes are essential for getting an understanding of the Temporal Cold War?
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Old March 2 2014, 08:52 PM   #13
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

Thrawn wrote: View Post
If I have never seen Enterprise, which episodes are essential for getting an understanding of the Temporal Cold War?
Well, the main episodes that feature it would be "Broken Bow," "Cold Front," "Shockwave" Parts 1 & 2, "Future Tense," "The Expanse," "Carpenter Street," "Azati Prime," "Zero Hour," and "Storm Front" Parts 1 & 2. Essentialy the entire season-long Xindi arc from "The Expanse" through "Zero Hour" is an aspect of the TCW, though. It's also alluded to in "Detained" and "Two Days and Two Nights." But those won't necessarily help you understand it, since even the producers didn't have a clear idea of what it was about (beyond fulfilling UPN's mandate to include time travel against the producers' wishes).
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Old March 2 2014, 09:04 PM   #14
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

Knowing that the TCW was forced on the writers/producers of ENT really does explain a lot when it comes to that story.
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Old March 2 2014, 09:09 PM   #15
Thrawn
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Re: Continuity people - help me out with 20th-century stories.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Thrawn wrote: View Post
If I have never seen Enterprise, which episodes are essential for getting an understanding of the Temporal Cold War?
Well, the main episodes that feature it would be "Broken Bow," "Cold Front," "Shockwave" Parts 1 & 2, "Future Tense," "The Expanse," "Carpenter Street," "Azati Prime," "Zero Hour," and "Storm Front" Parts 1 & 2. Essentialy the entire season-long Xindi arc from "The Expanse" through "Zero Hour" is an aspect of the TCW, though. It's also alluded to in "Detained" and "Two Days and Two Nights." But those won't necessarily help you understand it, since even the producers didn't have a clear idea of what it was about (beyond fulfilling UPN's mandate to include time travel against the producers' wishes).
Thanks. I've read up on the Xindi arc enough that I don't feel like I need to watch the whole thing, but the TCW is super confusing to just read about. Probably not much less confusing to watch, I gather, but at least I'll have faces to go with names and species.
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