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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old March 1 2014, 09:19 PM   #16
Grant
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

urbandefault wrote: View Post
I was a few days away from turning 20 when I saw it in the theater. All the way through the film I was spellbound. The flyaround shot of the Enterprise is still one of my favorite movie moments. That's a beautiful ship.

I was 7 days from my 20th birthday on opening night!

I have a lot of things I'd like to say but Warped9 and you other posters have stolen all my thunder.

Nearly every word Warped wrote was my experience--from starting at age 10 watching TOS in 1970, to closely following the animated series and it's abrupt cancellation to following TMP from mags like Starlog etc.

And I agree as well about the opening night emotion--the audience was primed to explode from the Klingon scene to Vulcan then to San Francisco and the Enterprise flyby!!!

Was the Ent tour/flyby too long??----not THAT night, not for THAT crowd---it was perfect.

Saw it 7 times in the theater---luckily there was a $1 theater down the street from my house!

C'mon Paramount let's visit TMP one last time and release the DE with less DNR on Blu-ray!!
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Old March 1 2014, 09:21 PM   #17
Greg Cox
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

In retrospect, TMP was perhaps trying too hard to be 2001 instead of, say, Star Trek.

But I watched it again recently, for the first time in ages, and it held up better than I expected. I still prefer my Trek a little less ponderous, though, and with perhaps a bit more space opera as well.
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Old March 1 2014, 09:27 PM   #18
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Maurice wrote: View Post
The me TMP, for all it's misfires is a hint at a "coulda been" which, to me, anyway, is more interesting than where it actually went.
Agreed. That feeling has solidfied for me over the years.

Several years ago I wrote an outline for how TWOK could have played out if it had followed TMP more directly. My idea was to tweak the TMP uniforms with a bit of colour (muted) yet continue from where TMP had left off. In that outline I tried to fix the logic flaws I saw in TWOK.

Suffice to say TSFS wouldn't necassarily have been the third film. If Nimoy opts to keep Spock dead then TSFS doesn't happen and the third film is completely different. If Nimoy wants to bring Spock back then TSFS happens albeit with some changes I had in mind. Or, of course, Spock doesn't die at all at the end of TWOK and then third film is completely different from TSFS.

Of course it was all just a thought exercise I actually wrote down. It's a shame I can't find that outline anywhere.

But TMP left me eager for further adventures in the universe of Star Trek writ large in 1979. Alas, those further adventures never happened...except maybe in print.
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Old March 1 2014, 09:30 PM   #19
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Well, as the cadet uniforms in TWOK are the TMP uniforms dyed and altered, we can see how easily they could have been made more appealing with a little color.
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Old March 1 2014, 09:47 PM   #20
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Star Trek: The Motion Picture was one of those movies I saw when I was in my low single digits. I was so young when I saw it that I still had the mind set that all movies were great because why would anyone make a bad movie? Seeing the movie at a young age also presented me with an interested grasp of how I grew into maturity, thanks in small part to the transporter accident scene and Spock mind melding V'Ger. Every time those scenes would come up, I would run outside of the room in panic because they scared the living crap out of me. The sound of the victims screaming while still being in the beam and that pulsating sound coupled with Jerry Goldsmith's pounding music and having Spock scream in agony was the stuff of nightmares. I can actually remember how as I would get older I would steadily watch more of these scenes as time went on to the point I could watch the whole movie without getting scared. Guess that's why TMP and I have a very awkward relationship. We really did grow up together.
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Old March 1 2014, 09:49 PM   #21
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
In retrospect, TMP was perhaps trying too hard to be 2001 instead of, say, Star Trek.
Over the years I've heard this more than a few times and it's an empty charge.

GR and Robert Wise were not trying to emulate 2001. I think they were trying for something other than expected run-and-jump. And like "The Cage" they might have lost a bit of focus. There are some paralels betwwen TMP and 2001, but they're not deliberate.

2001 was about encountering an intelligence unlike anything humanity could imagine. We still can't to some degree because we never get to see those aliens, whether in 2001 or 2010. It was addressing the idea "we are not alone" but in a very WTF manner. There is no real resolution to 2001 because the Discovery goes silent and doesn't report back.

Of course TMP doesn't start from that standpoint. The humanity of TMP certainly knows we are not alone, but they can still encounter unknowns. It doesn't take long for them to understand they are indeed faced with an intelligence only they have no idea what kind of intelligence. They take every step forward with trepidation because they feel they have no common frame of reference to guide them. In the end they are faced with the completely unexpected: an intelligence simply trying to understand its own existence. And it has a skewed conception of what life is. The resolution makes sense in that they are able to answer Vger's question (in a roundabout fashion), and rather than destroy itself or the "infestation of carbon based units" when its preconceptions are challenged...Vger chooses to accept the answers and evolves (although into what who the hell knows?).

The resolution makes sense within the context of the story, but it challenges most audiences expectations because it's not action-y and showy.

The parallel with 2001 is really only in that both films are aiming beyond accepted conventions of big sci-fi spectacles. And they are indeed visual extravaganzas. And they both question the nature of existence albeit in different ways.

Certainly TMP also runs counter to what followed which would be more straightforward action-adventure. Oddly it wouldn't be until TFF that Trek would again try to address a big idea: the nature of God. Sadly it was largely a disappointing effort. TFF is much like "Spock's Brain," a solid SF story idea smothered by too much silliness.
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Old March 1 2014, 10:05 PM   #22
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

I missed TMP's theatrical release by quite a bit (born in '82) so I only know it from home video. Kind of like Jeyl, it was a movie and it was Star Trek so I liked it (though I liked the genesis arc better as a kid), I often would put in my VHS copy of TMP and leave it on in the background -- I'd watch parts I liked and maybe grab some Trek toys and play with them in the parts that dragged more. I always liked the Enterprise flyby though and most of the really active parts of the V'Ger flyby (the strange energy vortexes at the bottom of organic shapes, etc). With age, and the release of the DE, I really came to appreciate it.

One thing I've always been pretty sure of, and the comments here have solidified for me, is that the flyby really needs to be seen on as large of a screen as you can muster. I've always known it was made to be a grand and impressive sequence with lots of phsycial model eye candy But I think even now, seeing the Blu-ray of TMP on a big home theater screen would really be something. Or, even better, a really well preserved 70mm copy of TMP projected in one of the last remaining theaters that can handle it.
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Old March 1 2014, 10:13 PM   #23
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

I watched a video recently about some of the f/x work behind TMP. That was a different world then where they built huge miniatures for f/x squences. The Vger miniature was HUGE.

And it's hard to believe the highly detailed bridge dome of the Klingon ship was only maybe an inch wide. Unreal.
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Old March 1 2014, 10:25 PM   #24
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Yeah, the "top" of V'ger was like 60+ feet long. What's even more amazing is that those shots of the V'ger flyover were done IN CAMERA using multiple repeat exposures, and there is no matte work at all except when you see the Enterprise gliding over it.
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Old March 1 2014, 10:30 PM   #25
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

I believe this was the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ojAZ95aM#t=591
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Old March 1 2014, 11:21 PM   #26
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

I was 9 or 10 and was absolutely amazed. I didn't get the plot at all (But who did? I thought the movie represented the launch and first mission of the Enterprise -- TOS and TAS were just cool shows on TV I watched sporadicly.), but the sfx and THE MUSIC got me definetly. I think I hadn't watched Star Wars at that point.
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Old March 1 2014, 11:26 PM   #27
Greg Cox
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Warped9 wrote: View Post

The parallel with 2001 is really only in that both films are aiming beyond accepted conventions of big sci-fi spectacles. And they are indeed visual extravaganzas. And they both question the nature of existence albeit in different ways.

Certainly TMP also runs counter to what followed which would be more straightforward action-adventure. Oddly it wouldn't be until TFF that Trek would again try to address a big idea: the nature of God. Sadly it was largely a disappointing effort. TFF is much like "Spock's Brain," a solid SF story idea smothered by too much silliness.
Well, I wasn't talking about the specific plot or concepts as much I was talking about the overall tone and feel of the movies. TMP wants to be a serious, "cerebral" SF movie about Big Ideas, more like 2001 than a big-screen version of the TV show.

You can also see the influence of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, which had been a big hit just a year before. Hence the extended special-effects light shows . . . .
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Old March 1 2014, 11:33 PM   #28
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Warped9 I really enjoy your thoughts regarding that special night in theaters on Friday December 7th 1979. I was a boy in my mid-teens that day and I will never forget the pure joy I experienced seeing TMP. I had spent my early boyhood in the '70s watching both reruns of TOS weekdays after school and the first-run TAS on Saturday mornings. I still have nothing but fond memories of seeing the refit-Enterprise and the original cast on the big theater screen, finally.
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Old March 1 2014, 11:39 PM   #29
Greg Cox
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Sadly, by the time 1982 rolled along, my little college town had acquired a multiplex so we didn't have to make a big road trip to see The Wrath of Khan.

Which was more convenient, to be sure, but maybe not quite as much fun . . . .
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Old March 1 2014, 11:51 PM   #30
Warped9
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Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post

The parallel with 2001 is really only in that both films are aiming beyond accepted conventions of big sci-fi spectacles. And they are indeed visual extravaganzas. And they both question the nature of existence albeit in different ways.

Certainly TMP also runs counter to what followed which would be more straightforward action-adventure. Oddly it wouldn't be until TFF that Trek would again try to address a big idea: the nature of God. Sadly it was largely a disappointing effort. TFF is much like "Spock's Brain," a solid SF story idea smothered by too much silliness.
Well, I wasn't talking about the specific plot or concepts as much I was talking about the overall tone and feel of the movies. TMP wants to be a serious, "cerebral" SF movie about Big Ideas, more like 2001 than a big-screen version of the TV show.

You can also see the influence of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, which had been a big hit just a year before. Hence the extended special-effects light shows . . . .
It's a matter of phrasing. When someone says, "It was trying to be 2001." it sounds like an accusation that the film is trying to immitate 2001.

That aside there's nothing wrong with TMP's apirations. TOS aspired to be more serious than conventional television sci-fi so TMP is really no different in aspiring to be more than conventional sci-fi in film. And to that end it succeeded because Star Wars was setting a new template (unrealized at the time) and TMP wasn't aiming to use that approach.
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