RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 146,438
Posts: 5,771,360
Members: 25,957
Currently online: 653
Newest member: TravisNX01

TrekToday headlines

Working Star Trek Communicator
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Deep Space Nine Coins Debut
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Two New Star Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Elba: Trek’s New Villain
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Deep Space Nine Frisbee
By: T'Bonz on Jul 6

Star Trek Attack Wing Wave 16
By: T'Bonz on Jul 6

Best of Both Worlds: The Daring Cliffhanger
By: T'Bonz on Jul 6

Trekonomics Book
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3

Shore Leave 37 Convention
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3

Two New ThinkGeek Trek-themed Items
By: T'Bonz on Jul 2


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 6 2014, 05:21 PM   #181
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Spock's character arc, starting with the Vulcan scene, is one of the best parts of the movie and arguably the element least in need of fixing. It works fine as is, so I can't imagine cutting any of it. Plus, that opening on Vulcan provides a bit of exotic visual splendor that makes the movie feel bigger and more epic and, well, more like "The Motion Picture" than just a bunch of expository dialogue later on. It works.

Movies are not just about the plot. They're also about the tone and style and total sensory experience.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6 2014, 05:24 PM   #182
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Spock's character arc, starting with the Vulcan scene, is one of the best parts of the movie and arguably the element least in need of fixing. It works fine as is, so I can't imagine cutting any of it. Plus, that opening on Vulcan provides a bit of exotic visual splendor that makes the movie feel bigger and more epic and, well, more like "The Motion Picture" than just a bunch of expository dialogue later on. It works.

Movies are not just about the plot. They're also about the tone and style and total sensory experience.
Agreed. And well said.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6 2014, 06:06 PM   #183
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

lurok wrote: View Post
^

Never saw on initial release, but got to see later in a 70mm presentation at NFT in London. My thoughts of first time saw it:

1. The outfits seemed strange and boringly 'futuristic' (compared to TOS' work-a-day clothes)...but could live with it.
2. Shatner's 'I need you...badly' just leapt out as a wtf bad moment, and every time I've watched since, it just makes me snort. It did feel like it took Meyer to get the actors back into their TOS groove.
3. Some really bad bluescreen that took you out of it....
4. Decker's tight-fitting outfit

Other than that:

* It had Wise's hallmark pacing and glacial cool, which I loved. Yes, it could do with re-editing, but all the elements are there.
* loved the sfx (esp V'ger travelling sequences) and Doug Trumbull's work. The opening Klingon fleet shot, IMHO, is even better than Star Wars because of the camera moves it pulls off. Yeah, heresy...but true
* adored the soundtrack, and still one of my favourites ever.
* it's still the only Trek movie I think captures the wonder/bafflement of encountering an alien species/artifact as per TOS. In that sense, I find it the 'purest'...

Even though regularly watch in blu-ray on big screen, I think it's one of those rare films that is so much better projected on a big movie screen...

In my top 5 trek movies along with TWOK and TFF (yes, that one)
TOTALLY agree with the last sentence (most of the rest as well, though I'm not as forgiving of the costumes.)

You must be among the very few who saw 70mm prints of TMP -- consensus seems to be that even if they were struck in 79, none of them reached theaters (at least domestically) until the film started getting reissued as a double bill.
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8 2014, 12:23 AM   #184
USS Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
USS Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: Homestate of Matt Jefferies
View USS Mariner's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to USS Mariner Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to USS Mariner
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
TMP was tring to be somewhat in the vein of 2001 but that was largely because Star Trek always had a cerebral element running through it--yes, Roddenberry wanted to make a hit tv show and, as a producer, he knew the way to do it was to provide action and thrills. But the best episodes of Trek are talky affairs, with the occasional burst of action or tension--sorta like starting off with three Klingon cruisers getting zapped, following that with a horrific transporter accident, then a remote outpsot getting zapped, then a warp drive malfunction that nearly destroys the ship, then an attack on the Enterprise, then Ilia getting zapped, then Spock nearly dying in an ill-advised mind-meld, then the tension mounting as the intruder prepares to wipe out all life on earth.

Sounds like Star Trek to me.
Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post

TMP is my favorite Star Trek movie but I don't think it's truly great--very near greatness but its ambition ultimately outstrips its technique and it is flawed (TWoK is a tighter film but it aspires to much less, in my mind). Despite what I said above, the pacing does drag in the second half and, as another thread dealt with, some of the methods used, like the diopter effects to creat an artificail depth of field, are not entirely successful. The movie was rushed to launch, just like Enterprise in the movie and, just like the Enterprise, it malfunctions at points.

So, as much as I love it, it isn't in the league of true masterpieces of the genre--The Man Who Fell to Earth, 2001, A Clockwork Orange, eXistenZ, Blade Runner--Alien is firmly in that league. It may just be the best of the lot.
Taken straight out of my mind. I'd say mouth, but I've never told anyone this because they'd think thaat there's something wrong if those words are coming from the mouth of a 24 year old.



I knew I was born 30 years too late.
__________________
Ignorance is forgivable,
Arrogance is reprehensible,
Narcissism is intolerable.

Subspace Commns Network ~ Visit Marinina!
USS Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8 2014, 01:05 AM   #185
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Hey, since I'm turning 54 this year I'll happily trade you. You can have my recollection of seeing 2001 on a big screen at age 7-1/2 and I can have a heads-up on getting my blood sugar under control before it is way too late.
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8 2014, 01:25 AM   #186
USS Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
USS Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: Homestate of Matt Jefferies
View USS Mariner's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to USS Mariner Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to USS Mariner
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

trevanian wrote: View Post
Hey, since I'm turning 54 this year I'll happily trade you. You can have my recollection of seeing 2001 on a big screen at age 7-1/2 and I can have a heads-up on getting my blood sugar under control before it is way too late.
I've had experience treating many diabetic relatives, but I think I'll pass.
__________________
Ignorance is forgivable,
Arrogance is reprehensible,
Narcissism is intolerable.

Subspace Commns Network ~ Visit Marinina!
USS Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8 2014, 01:30 AM   #187
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Spurred by this discussion I recently rewatched TMP-DE (my preferred version of the film). Looking at it now in this cut there is very little I would change in it. I can see a nip-and-tuck here and there as well as some spots that could have been fleshed out more. The sequence that could still be tightened a bit is the Vger fly over. But still little I would change outright. One has to remember this is film and not a television episode. It demands to be grander and be allowed the freedom to indulge to some extent, and TMP does that. Rewatching the film I again see echoes of "The Cage" and GR's initial concept for Star Trek, so in that respect it's incorrect for some to say it doesn't feel like Star Trek. No, it is very much Star Trek as it was conceived: an adult aproach to far future space adventure. People often dismiss TMP as essentially "The Changeling" padded out. While I can ackowledge some similarities to "The Changeling" to me it feels more like "The Immunity Syndrome." So TMP is just like TOS in using space adventure as a vehicle aiming for something more.

Another interesting thing about TMP is that some years ago I lent my copy to a coworker who is not a devout Trek fan, but enjoys trying different kinds of film. His verdict was that he felt it was quite acceptable Star Trek as well as a respectable science fiction film. He wasn't being nearly as demanding as I could be and he was quite happy with it.

TWOK evokes the characterizations of TOS. The characters are immediately recognizable in their performances. In overall tone the film echoes episodes like "The Doomsday Machine." It is adventurous, action oriented and has some decent character moments. From that it isn't hard to see why it's popular: it pushes all the right buttons. And given that those elements are more immediately accessible than something idea driven it's easy to understand why many see it as more recognizably Star Trek---because it feels that way. But once you get beyond what it feels like on a visceral level and start looking at it more analytically then TWOK is more akin to things like "Wink Of An Eye" or "The Mark Of Gideon"---efforts that definitely needed more rewriting and more thought. I can't think of a creative effort that's truly perfect, but if the flaws jar me out of being immersed in what's happening onscreen then I simply cannot call it good. That's why I rate TWOK as fair. It has the makings of something good, but it makes too many mistakes. It is much like episodes in TOS' third season. And candidly I think the remaining Trek films fall into the same category in varying degrees---it's recognizable, but only passably.

Star Trek wouldn't start to feel like itself again until TNG, and even then it would be only here and there.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?

Last edited by Warped9; March 8 2014 at 02:39 AM.
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9 2014, 04:13 AM   #188
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

I was only three when TMP was released, but something you said struck me:

Warped9 wrote: View Post
You've just been repeating "Holy shit!" to yourself during the first several minutes of the film when you next find yourself at Starfleet Central in San Francisco. And the audience erupts when Admiral James T. Kirk appears on the screen, completely drowning out the film.
Audiences today seem so passive. Even when I was a kid in the 80s, I remember people reacting emotionally to the movies. Now, whenever I go see a film, I notice the people in the audience just sit there, absorbing whatever images come at them. No one cheers, no one smiles, no one talks. It makes for a dull movie-going experience when the audience is that dull.

There are exceptions, to be sure. When I saw ID, when Old Spock appeared on the view screen, I heard a woman behind me whisper, "Yay!" By and large, though, going to the cinema just feels like a different experience to me.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9 2014, 04:20 AM   #189
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

That's not the experience I have had at the theatre at all.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9 2014, 08:34 PM   #190
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Harvey wrote: View Post
That's not the experience I have had at the theatre at all.
Which experience do you mean? An active fun audience or a passive dull audience?
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9 2014, 11:05 PM   #191
MakeshiftPython
Captain
 
MakeshiftPython's Avatar
 
Location: Ladies love Riker's beard.
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

My first time seeing TMP was when I was 6 years old catching an airing on USA Network, which ran back to back with TFF for some odd reason (they were the only two I remember that the network aired regularly, as if they only could get the subpar TOS films). I enjoyed it back then, like I pretty much enjoyed anything that was sci-fi because of having just seen STAR WARS on the same network. Can't really elaborate any further on that, but it was my first real exposure to Trek (aside from seeing the opening sequence of TNG at the age of four and thinking the Enterprise was supposed to be some kind of monster).

How do I feel about it today? I love the score and I really appreciate how this film treats space as it is rather than just a mere background like a lot of sci-fi treats it. Beyond that, I find it utterly dull to watch. Too thin of a story, not very good cinematography, unnecessary stretches of special effect sequences as if watching characters react to a viewscreen is compelling cinema (reminds me of that RiffTrax bit on TFF where the shuttle arrives on the "God" Planet, "if only half of sci-fi was just people looking at things"). In a way I do admire that it at least tries to be hard sci-fi in a way no film ever dares to do these days, but it strays so far into it that it feels cold and artificial at the end. The most human moment was when Kirk and Spock hold hands in the sick bay, but before that we'd be lucky to have Scotty pat Kirk on the shoulder. I'd love it if there was more passion to this film. The most passion it probably has is in the f/x work because those long stretches tell me "look at my work! I made this out of love! This is my life", and yeah, Trumbull deserves all the credit, but I'm not gonna leave it to him to make me feel anything for this film aside from thinking "great job, can we get onto the fucking story?"

Of course, that's my opinion.
MakeshiftPython is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9 2014, 11:45 PM   #192
Pondwater
Rear Admiral
 
Pondwater's Avatar
 
Location: Other side of the tracks
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

When TMP premiered I wasn't a thought or a twinkle. I first saw it on HBO or VHS sometime in the late 80's. It's the one ST film I have never seen from beginning to end in one sitting. I've always fallen asleep and end up starting back from where I dozed off.
__________________
~Pondwater
Pondwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 12:33 AM   #193
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
The most human moment was when Kirk and Spock hold hands in the sick bay, but before that we'd be lucky to have Scotty pat Kirk on the shoulder. I'd love it if there was more passion to this film.
Yeah I think I'd agree on this point, if not your others. But it's different strokes for different folks. The scene with Kirk and Spock in TMP stirs up about the same emotion as Grace Lee Whitney's cameo in STIII i.e. the way she looked at the Enterprise limping home. It reminds me fondly of what TOS was about. I would have liked more human moments like that beyond Kirk's boner when he sees the ship again.

I think one or two character moments between the supporting cast, and a landing party involving more than just the BiG3, Decker & Ilia, exploring some of V'Ger would have spiced up TMP enough for me.
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 01:00 AM   #194
MakeshiftPython
Captain
 
MakeshiftPython's Avatar
 
Location: Ladies love Riker's beard.
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

You know, I almost completely forgot about the Decker/Ilia subplot. Despite bad acting and zero chemistry between the two, Goldsmith is doing so much lifting to make you feel anything for those two characters with that love theme. I used to listen to the soundtrack and imagine it was for a better film, kind of like how I listened to John Williams' score for THE PHANTOM MENACE.
MakeshiftPython is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10 2014, 01:24 AM   #195
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
Re: ST-TMP: your first time...

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Audiences today seem so passive. Even when I was a kid in the 80s, I remember people reacting emotionally to the movies. Now, whenever I go see a film, I notice the people in the audience just sit there, absorbing whatever images come at them. No one cheers, no one smiles, no one talks. It makes for a dull movie-going experience when the audience is that dull.

There are exceptions, to be sure. When I saw ID, when Old Spock appeared on the view screen, I heard a woman behind me whisper, "Yay!" By and large, though, going to the cinema just feels like a different experience to me.
Is it that you're seeing the films a week or two after they release? Because I remember very loud & active audiences, but only on opening day/weekend. Then again, I don't think I've seen a movie opening weekend in this century, except maybe SERENITY. And in that time, I'd say the audiences have been amazingly silent.

Whereas opening night for CLOSE ENCOUNTERS, there were so many separate spontaneous bursts of applause from the audience (the one where we see that Dreyfuss is suited up like the other folks in red jumpsuits practically blew the roof off of Cinema 150 in Santa Clara, which is really saying something because that was a huge & beautiful theater) that it almost seemed like an interactive experience.
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.