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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old March 1 2014, 04:03 AM   #46
The Wormhole
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Khan 2.0 wrote: View Post
yeah im thinking that's probably what happened ..

Orci - 'hey lets include a line about why he looks nothing like khan..plus maybe a photo of Montalban that Spock finds'

JJ -'nah the non trekkies wont get it or care..save it for the comics'
They actually shot a scene explaining Carol's accent change, which was cut. That they didn't even shoot one for Khan shows it had even less priority for them.
Well, Carol's accent is something that would have been noticed by the casual viewers, given her father doesn't have the same accent.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Khan 2.0 wrote: View Post
i wonder why they didnt just explain it in the film? E.g. In the brig khan says Marcus gave him a new face....and/or then had a brief scene of Spock using the ships computer to unearth a photo of Montalban - the same photo of Khan from the briefing room scene in Space Seed
Likely done for the sake of those in the audience not familiar with TOS. They won't care or notice that Khan is a white guy. It was likely considered an unnecessary distraction, although to be honest so was the bridge scene in Trek XI which is basically "we're in a reboot, that stuff that happened before doesn't matter."

But anyway, it was probably felt only a small percentage of the audience would really care anyway, and so it would be best to serve their desires in the form of a comic instead.
In Iron Man 3, Ben Kingsley says he got plastic surgery to act as Mandarin. It's a three second line.
If you want to go there, Iron Man 3 also pulled off a better plot twist with the Mandarin than STID did as Khan.
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Old March 1 2014, 04:22 AM   #47
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

Set Harth wrote: View Post
him really think he's "John Harrison" as opposed to Khan.
They wiped his memory, changed his face and put him behind the wheel of the VIPER program?
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Old March 1 2014, 04:36 AM   #48
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

I think we all know the 'real' reason why Khan became 'white' is because the original actors selected decided for one reason or another decided against being in the movie.

I know some of the other actors in the movie changed eye colour, accent, shape, personality and ethnicity too. The problem with Khan was that in Space Seed his ethnicity was made a big deal (even though it was inaccurate even then). With other TOS 'villains' like Gary Mitchell, Ben Finney, Daystrom, Kodos their ethnicity was never mentioned.

My fanboy explanation is that Khan was planted into a Sikh tribal group as a young boy to learn about warrior techniques and to lead the revolution in India/Pakistan. That he was a Sikh by choice.

I just think its something we gotta live with. Like the other differences between nuTrek and Prime Trek. Like the change of actors/actresses in DS9. Its just unfortunate that they couldn't get a 'Sikh' actor of sufficient 'standing' to play the role. Its just not that big of a deal to me. Lots of other things in nuTrek I'm more concerned about.

While I can accept ther comic explanation of how I just can't accept the reason of why.
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Old March 1 2014, 04:45 AM   #49
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

Just to really piss with people they should have explained that both men were but one "Khan". There were several Khans; special augments mean to be "queen bees" of small groups of augments, that were launched into space.
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Old March 1 2014, 06:07 AM   #50
Set Harth
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

John Harrison was a fiction created the moment I was awoken by your Admiral Marcus to help him advance his cause, a smokescreen to conceal my true identity.

It's only an assumption on the part of some viewers that the above refers solely to renaming.
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Old March 1 2014, 09:40 PM   #51
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I think we all know the 'real' reason why Khan became 'white' is because the original actors selected decided for one reason or another decided against being in the movie.
I thought the real reason was another vain attempt to keep the secret. "Hey guys, they'll never think it's Khan if we make him a white guy!"
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Old March 1 2014, 10:38 PM   #52
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

^ I do believe in the last round we played of "But Ricardo Montalban Was White So What's The Big Deal," somebody cited Abrams as being supposedly uncomfortable with featuring a South Asian as a villain because 9-11 or something, which hopefully is not true as it would be a fairly lame explanation.
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Old March 1 2014, 10:54 PM   #53
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

The Stig wrote: View Post
Much like the execrable Enterprise two-parter that 'explained' the Klingon appearance change, this is really a question that no one needs the answer to.
Agreed.
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Old March 1 2014, 10:58 PM   #54
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

Perhaps we should have a comic series explaining why Saavik looks like two completely different people between two films as well.
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Old March 1 2014, 11:33 PM   #55
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Plus, Khan Prime's skin colour changes between "Space Seed" and WoK anyway. He goes from awful faux-Indian brownface to Montelban's natural white skin tone.


Show me three reviews that recognized this change back when TWOK was released and I'll consider respecting that argument.

Indeed.

In the OP's rush to appear to be the pinnacle of PCness, I'd posit that to me "awful faux Indian brown face" actually sounds hideously racist in itself.

The fact that the OP noticed the brown skin in the first place indicates he is seeing race - I just always assumed Montalban had a healthy tan.


See the dangers with extreme ridiculous PCness? From somebody else's POV you can come across as a hideous "racist" yourself.
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Old March 1 2014, 11:55 PM   #56
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

Tulin wrote: View Post
The fact that the OP noticed the brown skin in the first place indicates he is seeing race - I just always assumed Montalban had a healthy tan.
How... privileged of you.
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Old March 2 2014, 01:09 AM   #57
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

BlueMetroid wrote: View Post
According to the just-released Khan #5 comic, it's due to facial reconstruction, memory wiping, and vocal cord manipulation. Thoughts?
Tulin wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Plus, Khan Prime's skin colour changes between "Space Seed" and WoK anyway. He goes from awful faux-Indian brownface to Montelban's natural white skin tone.


Show me three reviews that recognized this change back when TWOK was released and I'll consider respecting that argument.

Indeed.

In the OP's rush to appear to be the pinnacle of PCness, I'd posit that to me "awful faux Indian brown face" actually sounds hideously racist in itself.

The fact that the OP noticed the brown skin in the first place indicates he is seeing race - I just always assumed Montalban had a healthy tan.


See the dangers with extreme ridiculous PCness? From somebody else's POV you can come across as a hideous "racist" yourself.
I don't know what you see in the OP's post (I've quoted it above yours, for convenience) that you think is evidence of a "rush to appear to be the pinnacle of PCness"; I honestly don't see any point whatsoever in your bringing up that post.

The balance of your post, however, is going to earn you a trolling warning. Comments to PM, please.
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Old March 2 2014, 01:57 AM   #58
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
The problem with Khan was that in Space Seed his ethnicity was made a big deal.
One line (which was flat out said to be a best guess) and a painting (based on said guess) from one character does not a big deal make.
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Old March 2 2014, 05:32 AM   #59
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

Must... explain... everything.....

Must... reinforce... delusion... that Star Trek... is... real...
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Old March 3 2014, 07:17 AM   #60
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Re: Khan's Into Darkness Appearance change finally explained

BigJake wrote: View Post
^ I do believe in the last round we played of "But Ricardo Montalban Was White So What's The Big Deal," somebody cited Abrams as being supposedly uncomfortable with featuring a South Asian as a villain because 9-11 or something, which hopefully is not true as it would be a fairly lame explanation.
That's a great one that I, as a person of color, accept. And Abrams is right on that one.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Must... explain... everything.....

Must... reinforce... delusion... that Star Trek... is... real...
THIS.
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