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Old March 5 2014, 12:20 AM   #31
Markonian
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
British Khan wrote: View Post
Well maybe some of the humans we see are actually aliens that look human.
In a TV show with make-up and time constraints, you can understand that but in a comic it's a terrible excuse!
Plus, everytime one of the Human-lookalikes receives it's a Human one. On the other hand, people like Madeline imply that Human names might be fashionable around the Federation of this period.

Also, am I imagining things or is Starfleet in the comics predominatly white? Even Admiral Thomas had to be a white Anglo-American male.
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Old March 5 2014, 12:28 AM   #32
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Markonian wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
British Khan wrote: View Post
Well maybe some of the humans we see are actually aliens that look human.
In a TV show with make-up and time constraints, you can understand that but in a comic it's a terrible excuse!
Plus, everytime one of the Human-lookalikes receives it's a Human one. On the other hand, people like Madeline imply that Human names might be fashionable around the Federation of this period.

Also, am I imagining things or is Starfleet in the comics predominatly white? Even Admiral Thomas had to be a white Anglo-American male.
Yeah I can understand it when they are re-using established characters as a nod to TOS but pretty much any non-canon brass should be female, alien, and/or alien female. Of course, technically, Thomas IS female in our universe so maybe she'll crop up soon. She won't be blue though. Sigh.
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Old March 5 2014, 01:09 AM   #33
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Markonian wrote: View Post
On the other hand, people like Madeline imply that Human names might be fashionable around the Federation of this period.
I thought that was just a nickname the character had been given by the film crew. Are you saying she's actually been called that on-panel in the comic?
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Old March 5 2014, 12:27 PM   #34
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Christopher wrote: View Post
Markonian wrote: View Post
On the other hand, people like Madeline imply that Human names might be fashionable around the Federation of this period.
I thought that was just a nickname the character had been given by the film crew. Are you saying she's actually been called that on-panel in the comic?
She hasn't appeared in any comics yet. The name comes from Memory Alpha and may stem from production materials to be an eligible source for the canon wiki.

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Yeah I can understand it when they are re-using established characters as a nod to TOS but pretty much any non-canon brass should be female, alien, and/or alien female. Of course, technically, Thomas IS female in our universe so maybe she'll crop up soon. She won't be blue though. Sigh.
Too bad Admiral Christina Pike couldn't relay those orders instead.
To be honest, I believe Thomas was a throw-away character to ensure that there's a male leader in the parallel alternate reality. I don't expect to see any female admiral in the comics. I'd love to be proven wrong, though.
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Old March 5 2014, 04:02 PM   #35
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Christopher wrote: View Post
Markonian wrote: View Post
On the other hand, people like Madeline imply that Human names might be fashionable around the Federation of this period.
I thought that was just a nickname the character had been given by the film crew. Are you saying she's actually been called that on-panel in the comic?
I'm pretty sure she and the other aliens all have their production names in the Star Trek Rivals game. The only exception is Alnschloss K'Bentayr, whose name comes from an old promotional site for the '09 movie (and whose production name was Kaysia)
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Old March 5 2014, 05:21 PM   #36
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Pauln6 wrote: View Post

Yeah I can understand it when they are re-using established characters as a nod to TOS but pretty much any non-canon brass should be female, alien, and/or alien female. Of course, technically, Thomas IS female in our universe so maybe she'll crop up soon. She won't be blue though. Sigh.
Why "should be"? "Can be" is fine--allows freedom of choice to the artist/writer tandem. "Should" suggests a need to follow a formula to satisfy head counts--more tokenism. There are no "should be" scenarios that are acceptable UNLESS a character is already established. Would make any decision to introduce "female, alien, and/or alien female" characters far more respectable if it is a free choice rather than a requirement for following some checklist drawn up the by The Committee for the Way Things Ought to Be(TM).
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Old March 5 2014, 08:54 PM   #37
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Ovation wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post

Yeah I can understand it when they are re-using established characters as a nod to TOS but pretty much any non-canon brass should be female, alien, and/or alien female. Of course, technically, Thomas IS female in our universe so maybe she'll crop up soon. She won't be blue though. Sigh.
Why "should be"? "Can be" is fine--allows freedom of choice to the artist/writer tandem. "Should" suggests a need to follow a formula to satisfy head counts--more tokenism. There are no "should be" scenarios that are acceptable UNLESS a character is already established. Would make any decision to introduce "female, alien, and/or alien female" characters far more respectable if it is a free choice rather than a requirement for following some checklist drawn up the by The Committee for the Way Things Ought to Be(TM).
In an ideal world I'd agree, except that the writers and artists have had 40 years to realise the ideal of full equality in theory and it practice. I'm not seeing it. The default for too many people is still white male.

Poor Lieutenant Zahra has been accidentally caucasianised as well (I do wonder if that was a mix up between intending to feature her and Rand but I hope they restore her.

I'd rather there was an official table or computer program that randomly assigned the sex, ethnicity and race of non-canon characters. No tokenism but everybody (on the list at least) would have an equal chance of being represented. It's the D&D nerd in me.
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Old March 6 2014, 01:08 AM   #38
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Ovation wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post

Yeah I can understand it when they are re-using established characters as a nod to TOS but pretty much any non-canon brass should be female, alien, and/or alien female. Of course, technically, Thomas IS female in our universe so maybe she'll crop up soon. She won't be blue though. Sigh.
Why "should be"? "Can be" is fine--allows freedom of choice to the artist/writer tandem. "Should" suggests a need to follow a formula to satisfy head counts--more tokenism. There are no "should be" scenarios that are acceptable UNLESS a character is already established. Would make any decision to introduce "female, alien, and/or alien female" characters far more respectable if it is a free choice rather than a requirement for following some checklist drawn up the by The Committee for the Way Things Ought to Be(TM).
In an ideal world I'd agree, except that the writers and artists have had 40 years to realise the ideal of full equality in theory and it practice. I'm not seeing it. The default for too many people is still white male.

Poor Lieutenant Zahra has been accidentally caucasianised as well (I do wonder if that was a mix up between intending to feature her and Rand but I hope they restore her.

I'd rather there was an official table or computer program that randomly assigned the sex, ethnicity and race of non-canon characters. No tokenism but everybody (on the list at least) would have an equal chance of being represented. It's the D&D nerd in me.
I have no issue with having a preference for a different distribution of sex/gender roles and identities in fictional characters (or in real life, for that matter, but Trek isn't real, so I'll stick to fiction for the moment). I have a MAJOR issue with telling artists (in the broadest sense of the term) what "should be" in their work. Artists should be free to present whatever they want (exceptions for established characters they did not create themselves) and let the audience decide if they like it or not. The artist does not have the right to have the work approved by the audience and the audience has no prior right of satisfaction of how the work turned out. "Should be" implies the right of audience satisfaction and I will NEVER support that position. It is anathema to the purpose of artistic creativity.

They've had 40 years "to get it right" and they're still not there? Then they need more time. There are legal instruments in place that make society a lot more equal than it's ever been. There are social conventions that do the same. It is far from perfect, but it is still a lot better than it used to be. Pointing out your disappointment that improvement is not happening quickly enough is great. It adds another voice to the changing social conventions. Requiring that individuals do things "the way they ought to be" when it comes to artistic endeavours, on the other hand, is a horrible idea. Freedom of expression is only a right if it allows for the expression of things that are uncomfortable. There is no right to not being offended (and there actually is a right to give offence). I would not want to live in a society where the reverse is true, despite the moments of discomfort that form the price of freedom of expression.
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Old March 6 2014, 04:17 AM   #39
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

^In general I bristle when I hear people talk about what writers "should" do in stories, but in this case I'm more inclined to agree with Pauln6 -- not in the sense that writers should be required to be more inclusive, but that they should have the basic good judgment and good taste to require it of themselves. Personally I've always felt I had an obligation as a writer to represent human diversity realistically rather than marginalizing large portions of humanity.
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Old March 6 2014, 03:54 PM   #40
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Here's the summary of the counterparts from the parallel alternate reality:

USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) - same (with red bussard collectors)
James T. Kirk - Jane Tiberia Kirk
Spock - same (should be T'Pok or T'Pock according to known Vulcan naming conventions)
Leonard McCoy - Lea McCoy
Montgomery Scott - Marjorie Scott
Hikaru Sulu - Hikari Sulu
Nyota Uhura - Nnamdi Uhuro (might be Nnamdi Uhura according to Swahili naming conventions)
Pavel Chekov - Pavlona Chekov (might be Pavla Cheková according to Czech naming conventions)
Keenser - Keensera
Carol Marcus - Carl Marcus
Christine Chapel - Chris Chapel
Janice Rand - Jason Rand

referenced only: Khan, female George Samuel Kirk counterpart

Did I miss somebody?
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Old March 6 2014, 04:48 PM   #41
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Markonian wrote: View Post
Nyota Uhura - Nnamdi Uhuro (might be Nnamdi Uhura according to Swahili naming conventions)
Except that neither Uhura nor Uhuro is an actual Swahili name. The name "Uhura" was coined by taking the Kiswahili word uhuru (freedom) and grafting a Latin feminine suffix onto it, which makes no linguistic sense because Kiswahili is not a Romance language (it has gender prefixes, not suffixes, and certainly not Latinate ones). The comics writer seems to have treated it as Spanish or Italian and substituted the feminine -a with a masculine -o, which makes no more sense than the original coinage. For either a man or a woman, the name should be Uhuru. (Although that's a pretty rare surname from what I can Google -- it's more commonly a given name, e.g. Uhuru Kenyatta, the current president of Kenya.)


Keenser - Keensera
Okay, now that's just lame. I am so sick of SF writers assuming that aliens speak Romance languages!!!
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Old March 6 2014, 10:01 PM   #42
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Keensera was a low point - pun intended. I just want the 'real' Chapel to make an appearance.

With regards to what artists should and should not be expected to do. In the same way that Klingons are not bright green, the Federation is multi-racial, multi-ethnic, and treats the sexes equally (although it isn't clear if the 66/33 split of the sixties survived the Butterfly Effect intentionally or not). Artists SHOULD be expected to produce work that is in tune with the source material albeit the parameters are not rigid. For my part, I'm happy with all male and all human landing parties if they are balanced (i.e. the balance of probabilities) by all female and all alien landing parties. It's the balance that has always been lacking.
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Last edited by Pauln6; March 7 2014 at 01:55 AM.
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Old March 26 2014, 12:08 AM   #43
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Markonian wrote: View Post
Here's the summary of the counterparts from the parallel alternate reality:

USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) - same (with red bussard collectors)
James T. Kirk - Jane Tiberia Kirk
Spock - same (should be T'Pok or T'Pock according to known Vulcan naming conventions)
Leonard McCoy - Lea McCoy
Montgomery Scott - Marjorie Scott
Hikaru Sulu - Hikari Sulu
Nyota Uhura - Nnamdi Uhuro (might be Nnamdi Uhura according to Swahili naming conventions)
Pavel Chekov - Pavlona Chekov (might be Pavla Cheková according to Czech naming conventions)
Keenser - Keensera
Carol Marcus - Carl Marcus
Christine Chapel - Chris Chapel
Janice Rand - Jason Rand

referenced only: Khan, female George Samuel Kirk counterpart

Did I miss somebody?
The Chekovs are of Russian, not Czech descent although the naming conventions are similar.
It's not strictly a writers' error, but I think you should mention that "Lea" could be "Lenora" and "Chris" could be the full "Christopher".
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Old March 26 2014, 10:59 AM   #44
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

Just in case anyone who loves the idea of a genderswapped Trek hasn't seen this, yet...
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Old March 28 2014, 06:18 AM   #45
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Re: Review - Star Trek # 30 Parallel Lives 2of2

It said it was blocked.
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