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Old September 22 2014, 11:03 PM   #1
allstar77
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Interesting article.

Liked the part about Jolene Blalock.

http://watercoolerjournal.com/failed...le-properties/
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Old September 23 2014, 09:09 AM   #2
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Re: Interesting article.

As I understand it, that part about TOS being saved for a 3rd season by the letter-writing campaign is a myth. Someone from the TOS forum could probably confirm that.

I wish that, instead of just repeating the old complaints, the writer had deconstructed them. Fans loudly complained that elements from the previous series were being ignored, but an equally loud group complained that ENT was just repeating what had been done before. People complained about the Temporal Cold War, and the continuity divergences, but never put together that the one explained the other.

All this is not to deny ENT's problems, particularly recycled plots in seasons 1 & 2, and the theme song (the fanservice issue has been really overblown). But Trek at that time was in the same position the original run of Doctor Who was in towards the end of the 1980s: a loud, antagonistic fanbase with desires for the show that were either contradictory or just impossible. As with Who, the only real answer was to shut down the franchise for a decade.
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Old September 23 2014, 07:02 PM   #3
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Re: Interesting article.

eyeresist wrote: View Post
All this is not to deny ENT's problems, particularly recycled plots in seasons 1 & 2, and the theme song (the fanservice issue has been really overblown). But Trek at that time was in the same position the original run of Doctor Who was in towards the end of the 1980s: a loud, antagonistic fanbase with desires for the show that were either contradictory or just impossible. As with Who, the only real answer was to shut down the franchise for a decade.
Good points. I thought the article was interesting and it did have a bibliography which I was impressed by. Rarely do you see that!
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Old September 24 2014, 11:24 PM   #4
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Re: Interesting article.

You do have to admit though, the 4th season was nothing but fan service. It just seemed like a check list that berman/braga had of stuff they wanted to show throughout the series, and they ran through it in the span of a season rather than like another 3 or 4 seasons that they might have expected to have when they started the series. Because they crammed all that fan service in to the 4th season, it just had no identity for me.
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Old September 24 2014, 11:49 PM   #5
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Re: Interesting article.

eyeresist wrote: View Post
As I understand it, that part about TOS being saved for a 3rd season by the letter-writing campaign is a myth. Someone from the TOS forum could probably confirm that.
I saw TOS during first run, and I remember an on-air voiceover during the end credits asking fans to stop writing letters because the series had been renewed, pretty sure that was at the end of the second season.

That doesn't necessarily mean the letter writing campaign had anything to do with it, though.
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Old September 25 2014, 08:16 PM   #6
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Re: Interesting article.

allstar77 wrote: View Post
Liked the part about Jolene Blalock.

http://watercoolerjournal.com/failed...le-properties/
This article places blame where it should be placed, at the feet of Rick Berman, though surely Brannon Braga and UPN were also part of the problem. "Fan fatigue"? Really? Then why did almost 13 million show up for the season premiere. If fan fatigue was the real culprit, most fans would have said "screw it, who cares" and would not have tuned in.

Quite simply, if the product they saw had been worth it, many more would have stuck around through the season and we would likely not be talking about "fan fatigue". I'm also glad that the article called out Berman for using this excuse as a scapegoat.

wulfio wrote: View Post
You do have to admit though, the 4th season was nothing but fan service. It just seemed like a check list that berman/braga had of stuff they wanted to show throughout the series,
See, this is why we can't have nice things. The show's fans berated the first two seasons for trying to appear to not be a part of the Trekverse. In season 4, when Manny took over, he attempted to drag the show back into the Trekverse by showing Ent clearly as a prequel. Afterall, the show was set in the period 100 years before TOS, a prequel would seem to be a reasonable expectation --- except to the "fan service" folks.

Well count me among the fans who thought the show should have been a prequel, should not have been a prequel. Would that have been so hard?

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Old September 25 2014, 08:57 PM   #7
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Re: Interesting article.

gblews wrote: View Post
Well count me among the fans who thought the show should have been a prequel, should not have been a prequel.
Say what?
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Old September 25 2014, 09:37 PM   #8
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Re: Interesting article.

Melakon wrote: View Post
gblews wrote: View Post
Well count me among the fans who thought the show should have been a prequel, should not have been a prequel.
Say what?
Yeah, I did not follow that, sorry.

I was doing great until that point though.
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Old September 25 2014, 11:55 PM   #9
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Re: Interesting article.

Not a whole lot to argue about there really. But even knowing all about the shortcomings, I'd have loved Enterprise to have lasted just that little bit longer than it did. A season more to establish a 60/40 or even 70/30 success rate, over the generally accepted "half of it was crap" argument. I don't really buy that because that's dismissing episodes to tell the truth I've always liked. What I can't dispute is how wild the difference between the peaks and troughs are. Just too much output with 26 shows a piece and a decent year between them. Or something good at half the length.
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Old September 26 2014, 02:37 AM   #10
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Re: Interesting article.

^ Yes, if there's a new series they ought to do fewer episodes per year, make those they do a bit more special.
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Old September 26 2014, 05:09 PM   #11
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Re: Interesting article.

gblews wrote: View Post
See, this is why we can't have nice things. The show's fans berated the first two seasons for trying to appear to not be a part of the Trekverse. In season 4, when Manny took over, he attempted to drag the show back into the Trekverse by showing Ent clearly as a prequel. Afterall, the show was set in the period 100 years before TOS, a prequel would seem to be a reasonable expectation --- except to the "fan service" folks.

Well count me among the fans who thought the show should have been a prequel, should not have been a prequel. Would that have been so hard?

I think you're really confused what fan service is. Furthermore, I'm not "berating" it. I'm merely expressing what my feelings were in general about the 4th season.

Just so you know:
be·rate (b-rt)tr.v. be·rat·ed, be·rat·ing, be·rates To rebuke or scold angrily and at length.



You'll also have to explain to me how seasons 1-3 weren't a prequel, but season 4 was? I'm not really big on the internet so forgive me for being ignorant about the trendy internet fans bandwagons.

But to explain myself, seasons 1-3, while giving the occasional wink to the audience, had season arcs, and focused on the shows own identity. For me, it was about going in to space for the first time, and making mistakes. There was the occasional stand alone, but for the most part, each season had its own continuity. That's what I expected the show to be, and I enjoyed it well enough despite the cast and writing.

Season 4, focused mainly on multi episode arcs. It was as if they knew they were getting canned, and they wanted to cram 7 seasons worth of winks in to one season. So they went to Andor, Vulcan, Orion Syndicate, Mirror Universe, Augments, Klingon Foreheads, etc. all in one season. There was no real continuity there for me. It's like they had a check list of unrelated things they wanted to show before the series ended, and they rifled through all of them as fast as they could, trying to patch together some semblance of contuinty. I found it jarring, and like the finale, I felt it was a disservice to the series, because all they wanted to do was go to the places they dreamed of going from childhood, rather than giving that crew a proper send off. That's what pure fan service is.

I don't know why this means "we can't have nice things", or that my opinion and feelings are less credible than yours? TV and Film are subjective mediums. I don't mind a wink here and there, but when this show started, I didn't expect it to be Star Trek Enterprise: An Homage to TOS. Apparently some of you did though.

Last edited by wulfio; September 26 2014 at 05:23 PM.
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Old September 26 2014, 11:30 PM   #12
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Re: Interesting article.

Melakon wrote: View Post
gblews wrote: View Post
Well count me among the fans who thought the show should have been a prequel, should not have been a prequel.
Say what?
fireproof78 wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
gblews wrote: View Post
Well count me among the fans who thought the show should have been a prequel, should not have been a prequel.
Say what?
Yeah, I did not follow that, sorry.

I was doing great until that point though.
You read it right, guys.

My point with that blatantly contradictory sentence was to point out how difficult it must have been for the writers to pesent the show as a prequel (which is what the show should have been) when there ware so many who then berated (there's that word again) the prequel elements as "fan service".

wulfio wrote: View Post
gblews wrote: View Post
See, this is why we can't have nice things. The show's fans berated the first two seasons for trying to appear to not be a part of the Trekverse. In season 4, when Manny took over, he attempted to drag the show back into the Trekverse by showing Ent clearly as a prequel. Afterall, the show was set in the period 100 years before TOS, a prequel would seem to be a reasonable expectation --- except to the "fan service" folks.

Well count me among the fans who thought the show should have been a prequel, should not have been a prequel. Would that have been so hard?

I think you're really confused what fan service is. Furthermore, I'm not "berating" it. I'm merely expressing what my feelings were in general about the 4th season.

Just so you know:
be·rate (b-rt)tr.v. be·rat·ed, be·rat·ing, be·rates To rebuke or scold angrily and at length.
Yes, that is what many fans did to seasons 1 and 2 which had little to no prequel elements. Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote.

You'll also have to explain to me how seasons 1-3 weren't a prequel, but season 4 was? I'm not really big on the internet so forgive me for being ignorant about the trendy internet fans bandwagons.
Yet, here you are "bandwagoning" with those "trendy internet fans" who view the prequel elements of season 4 as "fan service". You, apparently, are a quick study.

BTW, seasons 1 and 2 had no real overall season arcs like 3 and 4.

Without going over each episode, seasons 1 and 2 had, as I wrote above, little to no prequel elements especially compared to season 4. Beebs were in the throes of presenting a Trek show as divorced from the Trekverse as a Trek show can be, so very little attention was paid to how the NX01 fit into Trek history. Season 3 was al about the Xindi mission.

The fans who wanted a prequel "berated" () the first 2, and some, the first 3 seasons.

they wanted to cram 7 seasons worth of winks in to one season. So they went to Andor, Vulcan, Orion Syndicate, Mirror Universe, Augments, Klingon Foreheads, etc. all in one season. There was no real continuity there for me.
No, they wanted to present Ent as a prequel which was what Manny Coto's vision of a Trek show about the first interstellar earth ship should be.

I don't know why this means "we can't have nice things",
Because of the dual nature of Trek fans who berated the show for not being a prequel, and then when the show became a true prequel in seasion 4, berated season 4 as "fan service". The writers were caught in the middle. It was like, when they gave us what it appeared we wanted, it still wasn't what we wanted.

or that my opinion and feelings are less credible than yours? TV and Film are subjective mediums. I don't mind a wink here and there, but when this show started, I didn't expect it to be Star Trek Enterprise: An Homage to TOS. Apparently some of you did though.
Season 4 didn't contain mere "winks" to TOS and other Trek lore. It presented fully fleshed out stories depicting events, characters, alien races, and situations that led to much of the stuff that we learned from watching TOS, TNG, etc.

Bottom line, we fans complained when the show wasn't a prequel and when the show became a prequel, we called that "fan service".
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Old September 27 2014, 12:42 AM   #13
wulfio
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Re: Interesting article.

I don't recall angrily scolding the show but ok. I stated my opinion. How am I "bandwagoning" if that's how I feel? I still don't think you have a firm handle on the word berate. When people are adults, they learn how to express opinions without getting defensive and upset, or be of the mind frame that when you formulate an opinion, it is a polarizing act.

I don't understand how you can argue that my opinion is wrong. It's my opinion. It's how I felt about the show. What you feel about the show has absolutely no bearing on how I feel about the show. lol

I don't care if you thought season 4 was awesome. That's your opinion. That's fine, and mine is different.

Just accept that you have your views, and I have mine. The show was perceived a certain way for me, and it was perceived another way for you.
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Old September 27 2014, 07:41 AM   #14
HolidayRomantic
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Re: Interesting article.

Melakon wrote: View Post
eyeresist wrote: View Post
As I understand it, that part about TOS being saved for a 3rd season by the letter-writing campaign is a myth. Someone from the TOS forum could probably confirm that.
I saw TOS during first run, and I remember an on-air voiceover during the end credits asking fans to stop writing letters because the series had been renewed, pretty sure that was at the end of the second season.

That doesn't necessarily mean the letter writing campaign had anything to do with it, though.
According to Solow and Justman's book Inside Star Trek, the letter-writing campaign to get TOS renewed for a third season (and the picketing of NBC, and the leaking of NBC VP Herb Schlosser's phone number to fans, and more) was secretly engineered by the Great Bird himself, and organized by devoted fans such as Bjo Trimble and Joan Winston. Gene even billed Paramount for expenses for the secret campaign. There was a huge amount of letters, enough to get NBC's attention. Apparently the network execs were PO'd when they figured out Gene was at the bottom of it all, but they couldn't prove anything, and it seems a lot of programming people were in favor of the show being renewed anyway. End result: renewal with on-air announcement.

wulfio wrote: View Post
Just so you know:
be·rate (b-rt)tr.v. be·rat·ed, be·rat·ing, be·rates To rebuke or scold angrily and at length.
Alrighty then, this word has been well and truly run into the ground. Moratorium on "berate," okay?

wulfio wrote: View Post
Season 4, focused mainly on multi episode arcs. It was as if they knew they were getting canned, and they wanted to cram 7 seasons worth of winks in to one season.
This is the impression I got too. Not just cramming the last 4 seasons into one, but the wholesale jettisoning of so many dangling plot threads from S1-3.

The Trip/T'Pol storyline in S3, in particular, seemed to be a setup for the next several seasons, a microcosm for humans and Vulcans learning to co-exist, a precursor to Sarek and Amanda-- then nope. That Koss storyline was sure shoehorned in there abruptly, then ditched just as suddenly, eh? But it succeeded in reducing the T/T relationship to about 45 seconds per episode for most of the season.

And don't even start with me about T/T at the end of "Terra Prime," weeping over baby Elizabeth and talking about the possibility of having a child of their own someday, and then splitting up like 5 minutes later, to make that "broke up 6 years ago" reference in TATV fit? Wait, what?

gblews wrote: View Post
No, they wanted to present Ent as a prequel which was what Manny Coto's vision of a Trek show about the first interstellar earth ship should be.
Hmm, I thought this too. Can't they both be true?

*

Regarding differing opinions, well, this is a discussion board. Sharing and comparing a variety of viewpoints is what makes the board go 'round. IDIC, and all that. As long as you can disagree without being disagreeable, it's all good.
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Old September 28 2014, 01:01 AM   #15
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Re: Interesting article.

wulfio wrote: View Post
I don't understand how you can argue that my opinion is wrong.
.
I'm not arguing that your opinion is wrong. You've completely missed the point.

Here:
Bottom line, we fans complained when the show wasn't a prequel and when the show became a prequel, we called that "fan service".
I have been pointing out how difficult it must have been for the writers who, hearing fans' complaints that the show wasn't a prequel, attempted to give us that in season 4 only to have "other" fans call that "fan service".

I picked out your post because I felt it was an example of the aforementioned contradictory nature of Ent fans on this issue.

BTW, I never said season 4 was awesome -- season 4 was great. Season 3 was awesome.
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