RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,111
Posts: 5,432,822
Members: 24,932
Currently online: 630
Newest member: Cani

TrekToday headlines

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Beltran Introduces Shakespeare To Theater Group
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 23 2014, 02:50 AM   #16
Armored Saint
Fleet Captain
 
Armored Saint's Avatar
 
Location: Quebec City
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

In the first seasons, episodes like Justice (except for Mordock who was cool) or Coming of Age (of course the Edo were themselves big children) show a general difficulty with writing (and clothing, huhuhuh) good teenager characters and situations. So Wesley is not an isolated case.
Armored Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 09:54 AM   #17
JD5000
Commander
 
JD5000's Avatar
 
Location: Jackson, WY
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

That's sorta fair, in the Loss, Wesley *almost* gets pissed by having to describe to Picard that he is mad at him for killing his dad. Basically the most important event in any person's life. But - he's like, it's cool, I'm over it, and Picard accepts this as resolution between himself and Wesley, and Wesley seems to, also. If it were that easy!
JD5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 12:13 PM   #18
2takesfrakes
Commodore
 
2takesfrakes's Avatar
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

I don't have any real problem with Wesley Crusher, but ...

For being such a Mental Giant, his character always remains just above Reginald Barclay, on the bottom rung of importance. Wes is just there to find things to do in a moment, to fill out the bridge compliment. Resigned to driving the bus, when he should be using his Genius to improve ENTERPRISE-D's abilities and bring her up to 30th Century standards. He comes off as a bit of a dork, as he gets older, at which point, we are informed that he is the next step in Human Evolution! All of this aggrandizing for someone who, despite all of his supposed superiority, is only a part of the action because of who his mother is.

Wil Wheaton had talent, but he was a kid, without star power - what could he do but act out scenes he was given? I feel bad for him, especially since Wesley Crusher probably killed his career.
2takesfrakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 12:32 PM   #19
{ Google Spy }
{ mostly harmless }
 
{ Google Spy }'s Avatar
 
Location: { Emilia }
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

JD5000 wrote: View Post
The problem I have with Wesley is that he is one-dimensional. The character does not have a dark side, which all real people possess. We see it in most of the other characters, even if it's in their own repression of it.
Similar to what you're saying I thought The First Duty was Wesley's best episode. He wasn't nearly as one-dimensional in that one.
I think people would relate to Wesley a lot more if he hadn't had such a completely bland and terrible chemistry with Beverly. Compare their interaction to Sisko & Son.
Come to think of it Gates MacFadden's acting skills are probably worse than Wheaton's.
{ Google Spy } is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 01:34 PM   #20
The Dead Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Dead Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

There was nothing wrong with Wesley that a little Ashley Judd couldn't fix....
__________________
The Old Mixer, celebrating 50 years under our Fab Overlords.
The Dead Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 01:53 PM   #21
YellowSubmarine
Rear Admiral
 
YellowSubmarine's Avatar
 
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

{ Emilia } wrote: View Post
Similar to what you're saying I thought The First Duty was Wesley's best episode. He wasn't nearly as one-dimensional in that one.
I think people would relate to Wesley a lot more if he hadn't had such a completely bland and terrible chemistry with Beverly. Compare their interaction to Sisko & Son.
Come to think of it Gates MacFadden's acting skills are probably worse than Wheaton's.
I think that played a significant role too.

I believe that conceptually Wesley was a fine character, and a decent idea. He could have been likeable, even while retaining some of the characteristics that seem to make him unlikeable right now. He could have been a great character who shows that people can outgrow their age, and accomplish more than society gives them credit for, in a believable way. He could given a children's vigour and excitement to the journey, and truly humorous take on his own immaturity, a well-thought different perspective that his young age could have created. He could have painted children geniuses in good light, as relatable people, and not as someone who'd you want to smash with a baseball bat (that's how I felt about him when 12, I'd reckon the adult audience was a little bit less extreme).

I just don't think you can approach such character so casually. He should have been written better, and with more thought put into him. I think something was wrong at the heart of their take on him. Consider how even an experienced adult such as Picard was immediately looked upon with prejudice from everyone when he happened to be in a child's body. You'd assume that both Starfleet personnel and the writers would know better than that, but turns out they didn't. If you can't fit adult Picard on a starship, how can you fit an actual teenager?
__________________
R.I.P. Cadet James T. Kirk (-1651)
YellowSubmarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 04:47 PM   #22
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
I don't mind him being smarter than adults – I was smarter when I was younger than I am now. I don't mind him having the knowledge and ability of a person trained in the art – that also happens from time to time, but after hard work. I don't mind him solving certain problems they can't either – sometimes the problems can be out of the scope of their training and experience.
When I was younger I was probably a little better at math, but there's a difference between having raw talents and having trained skill at a trade.

All I'm sayin, if you need a math problem solved or advice on the next move of a chess game, ask teenage me. If you need a real world problem solved, ask adult me.

And TNG Star Trek is always all about working hard to earn your place on a team, and Wesley had it handed to him because the Captain had history with his mother.

It's true Wesley only saved the ship a handful of times but there were other episodes like Peak Performance, The Enemy, Menage a Troi where he comes up with some magical idea that nobody else could have thought of. In The Enemy Geordi even sees the particle beam and says "Wesley!" as if he's the only one who could have come up with such an idea.

That's the main problem with the way Wesley was written, not that he was such a genius, that all the adults were always super ready and willing to play into the cult of Gene Wesley Roddenberry's middle name wish fulfillment.

Last edited by JirinPanthosa; February 23 2014 at 05:14 PM.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 11:54 PM   #23
Armored Saint
Fleet Captain
 
Armored Saint's Avatar
 
Location: Quebec City
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

WESLEY: But he still won't let me on the Bridge. And there's nothing there I don't understand.
LAFORGE: I wish I understood myself that well.

Indeed Jean-Luc, why don't you allow a proclaimed 15-year-old self-taught to work on a bridge?

And TNG Star Trek is always all about working hard to earn your place on a team, and Wesley had it handed to him because the Captain had history with his mother.
On the other hand, Worf and Geordi were both Lieutenant Junior Grade and weren't even members of the department for which they have been promoted Chief. Of course, in the subtext it was well-deserved appointments.
Armored Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24 2014, 01:45 AM   #24
2takesfrakes
Commodore
 
2takesfrakes's Avatar
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
There was nothing wrong with Wesley that a little Ashley Judd couldn't fix....
Boy, you said it, T.O.M.! She had a very lovely, a very willowy look, during her stint on TNG. Just exceptional.
2takesfrakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24 2014, 03:02 AM   #25
The Dead Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Dead Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

FWIW, that wasn't so much a comment on Ashley Judd's particular qualities as a way of saying, "He just needed to get laid."
__________________
The Old Mixer, celebrating 50 years under our Fab Overlords.
The Dead Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24 2014, 03:09 AM   #26
Armored Saint
Fleet Captain
 
Armored Saint's Avatar
 
Location: Quebec City
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

Not withou a condom! She was annoying with her stupid laws, imagine if Wesley and her reproduced together.
Armored Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24 2014, 03:26 AM   #27
The Dead Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Dead Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

Hopefully Wes knew about "the injection"...he had been at the Academy for a while by then....
__________________
The Old Mixer, celebrating 50 years under our Fab Overlords.
The Dead Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24 2014, 03:31 AM   #28
bigboojeg
Vice Admiral
 
bigboojeg's Avatar
 
Location: bbjeg
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

The writers didn't know how to write kids. As a kid watching TNG, I couldn't relate to the character.
bigboojeg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 24 2014, 05:05 AM   #29
Dr. Sevrin
Vice Admiral
 
Dr. Sevrin's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's grave
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

bbjeg wrote: View Post
The writers didn't know how to write kids. As a kid watching TNG, I couldn't relate to the character.
That was my problem with the character (though I was in my mid-to-late 30s). Wil did what he could with it, but they'd give him some of the worst dialogue which didn't sound like a boy of his age at all. In "When the Bough Breaks", he's the oldest of the kidnapped children by maybe five or six years, yet the writing seems to treat him as being the same age even though he's got lots of dialogue scenes as their spokesman.

I always thought his best episodes were those he did as a guest star, particularly with "The Game". Wesley was finally talking like a real person.
__________________
Dr. Sevrin is insane.
Dr. Sevrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24 2014, 06:12 AM   #30
Armored Saint
Fleet Captain
 
Armored Saint's Avatar
 
Location: Quebec City
Re: What's wrong with Wesley?

It's like if the writers didn't really catch the concept of adolescence as a bridge between childhood and adulthood.
Armored Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.