RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,362
Posts: 5,355,846
Members: 24,626
Currently online: 542
Newest member: glmrkills

TrekToday headlines

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 22 2014, 07:34 AM   #31
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

Actually considering the chopping nature of the installation, generations inbetween each Seldon moment... I could see this released as webisodes.

Of course, the good stuff released as webisodes, are eventually collected into a direct to dvd movies like the original clone wars or BSG Blood and Steel.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2014, 07:50 AM   #32
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

arch101 wrote: View Post
Do each book as an 8-10 ep per season series. If it gets cancelled, at least a complete book would be filmed.
I was thinking this too, but it would take a high-quality writing team to properly flesh out the books. Unfortunately, fleshing out has been tried before with an Asimov classic, with disastrous results. Dissuaded by that utter nightmare, I kept silent. Glad to see someone else thinking this thought, though.

ATimson wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
Leaving aside for a second the disjointed nature of the narrative, my main problem with any attempt to adapt the Foundation is that to my recollection, the books never did have what you'd call a definitive end point. Which is built in since the central plot is about avoiding there being a definitive end to civilization.
Well, we know the Foundation made it through the Interregnum, and was successfully publishing the Encyclopedia Galactica still in 1020 F.E. (per the citations on the epigraphs). Since making it there was the driving plot of the series, surely there's been a definitive end point since day 1?

Perhaps there were additional Seldon crises between Foundation and Earth and that end point; perhaps not. But either way, we know they succeeded.
Yeah, the point is that the Foundation works. The point is ultimately that the human experience is both rational and fathomable.

While I know this might inject some controversy into the conversation, the complete Foundation saga as it stands involves not only the Robot series but also The End of Eternity. There's really an almost limitless universe there to tell interconnected and stand-alone stories in. Rather than do it in one film, it could be paced out over many, kinda like the MCU.

If only Hollywood could step back from the blockbuster mentality. Asimov is more famous for his sweeping ideas than for his characters, but there are a lot of poignant character moments in the Foundation saga, and there's plenty of opportunity to make the stories resonate on an emotional level. The idea that space-based science fiction properties have to be developed as tentpole blockbusters seems awfully self-defeating to me. It's too limiting. Indie films like Moon have proven successful, in their niche anyway, and Gravity was made on a small budget, as tentpole films go.

I'm glad to have read the books, at least.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2014, 09:20 AM   #33
Peak
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Sweden
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

Anyone that really want an "end" to the foundation saga, there's always this:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5810546...ations-Resolve

Fan-fic of course, but they say it's a very good one (haven't read it yet, currently making my way through everything Robot/Empire/Foundation related in order, and am at Foundation and Empire at the moment).

Mostly derived from this list: http://www.scifi-review.net/insane_list.php (it's missing a few, so there's more...)
__________________
//Peak
http://www.scifinytt.se

My DVDs
Peak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2014, 08:45 PM   #34
Owain Taggart
Rear Admiral
 
Owain Taggart's Avatar
 
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
While I know this might inject some controversy into the conversation, the complete Foundation saga as it stands involves not only the Robot series but also The End of Eternity. There's really an almost limitless universe there to tell interconnected and stand-alone stories in. Rather than do it in one film, it could be paced out over many, kinda like the MCU.

That's very true, and a good point to make. If they'd go through the effort of making the Foundation series, then they shouldn't stop there as it's only really half of a bigger picture, covered with the Robot series and Empire series, and there'd be lots of material to cover. You have the other series to fill the gaps. They could call it Worlds of Asimov.
Owain Taggart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2014, 09:17 PM   #35
Ancient Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: A ship of Samuel Walters' imagination.
View Ancient Mariner's Twitter Profile
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

Owain Taggart wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
While I know this might inject some controversy into the conversation, the complete Foundation saga as it stands involves not only the Robot series but also The End of Eternity. There's really an almost limitless universe there to tell interconnected and stand-alone stories in. Rather than do it in one film, it could be paced out over many, kinda like the MCU.

That's very true, and a good point to make. If they'd go through the effort of making the Foundation series, then they shouldn't stop there as it's only really half of a bigger picture, covered with the Robot series and Empire series, and there'd be lots of material to cover. You have the other series to fill the gaps. They could call it Worlds of Asimov.
I agree on scaling back the production levels for a number of sci-fi films since, in many respects, sci-fi is more about the characters and interactions than it is about the whiz-bang VFX or action. I think that's precisely why Gravity was successful, because it did focus on characters. If the Foundation "movies" (or series) were made with similar priorities, I think they could be successful without being the huge tent-pole pictures most sci-fi films are expected to be these days.
__________________
I'm starting to worry about this voyage ...
Ancient Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2014, 11:51 PM   #36
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

It might work as a series of short form 5-15 minute episodes, but I maintain that any attempt to tell a cohesive and complete story is going to be seriously hampered by there being no good way to end it and no real emotional core.

The way I see it, if you have a central character that you follow though most of a story, it doesn't matter so much if the plot doesn't have a good end point since you can focus your story on the character's emotional journey, making everything else a backdrop. Think 'Saving Private Ryan' where the actual story is about Hank's character's journey, with the Normandy invasion as the backdrop. We didn't need to see Hitler defeated, since that's not the point of the film.

Conversely, if you want to do a multi-generational story, the the focus has to be the overarching plot. But, as I said, the plot doesn't really go anywhere and with something like this you need a culmination point where all the narrative and thematic threads converge.

Note; I'm not saying it's impossible, just very very difficult to pull off a story with no protagonist, no ending and basically nothing to hold it all together.

The only solution I can think of is inserting that robot character from the later books (I forget his name) at the *beginning* of the story and make the whole Foundation Saga from his POV.

Keep in mind that it's one thing to try adapting a bunch of stories, it's quite another to do so in a way that is *marketable*. That is to say, not so boring and impenetrable as to only appeal to hardcore fans. It'd be like trying to adapt The Silmarillion in it's entirety. Technically you could do it, but good luck getting anyone outside of a small group of crazy fans to actually sit through the thing.
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 12:13 AM   #37
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

The problem with I Robot is that they overfleshed a story that did not have to be told.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 01:48 AM   #38
Owain Taggart
Rear Admiral
 
Owain Taggart's Avatar
 
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

Reverend wrote: View Post
Conversely, if you want to do a multi-generational story, the the focus has to be the overarching plot. But, as I said, the plot doesn't really go anywhere and with something like this you need a culmination point where all the narrative and thematic threads converge.

Not necessarily. You gain insight into what goes on with each new entry to the Encyclopedia. Each of them advance the story, sometimes from different angles. So, for example, if each episode is a new entry, they could an episode on the rebel leader that sacks Trantor and the implications of the sacking itself. Another episode on Hari Seldon and his development of Psychohistory from Prelude, etc. Seldon being a pivotal character would be recurring through his holographic messages. There's enough there throughout that one can piece together without having it be overarching. The whole series sells itself on the characters and the events they go through rather than an intricate plot. I'd argue that you don't even really need a concrete ending for this thing.
Owain Taggart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 01:56 AM   #39
Ancient Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: A ship of Samuel Walters' imagination.
View Ancient Mariner's Twitter Profile
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

The series would have to make viewers really care about Terminus and the Foundation in a way similar to how the Foundationers cared about their own existence. If so, it would be a kind of ... ahem ... foundation to build each episode on. The series would have to take great care, though, that each installment would be compelling on its own and toward that final goal of a Second Galactic Empire.
__________________
I'm starting to worry about this voyage ...
Ancient Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 02:23 AM   #40
Wereghost
Commodore
 
Wereghost's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

HIjol wrote: View Post
Should it be?...Could it be....

Ian McKellen as Hari Seldon....Ian Holm?...
Ian McShane.
__________________
"Two things have always been true about human beings. One, the world is always getting better. Two, the people living at that time think it`s getting worse."
Penn Jillette.
Wereghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 02:55 AM   #41
Ancient Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: A ship of Samuel Walters' imagination.
View Ancient Mariner's Twitter Profile
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

Nah. Ian McDiarmid.
__________________
I'm starting to worry about this voyage ...
Ancient Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 06:16 AM   #42
malfourmed
Ensign
 
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

Reverend wrote: View Post
any attempt to tell a cohesive and complete story is going to be seriously hampered by there being no good way to end it and no real emotional core.
Good analysis. With few exceptions, characterisation and emotional arcs were never Asimov's strong suits, but they're critical to long-form storytelling on TV or film these days.

The only solution I can think of is inserting that robot character from the later books (I forget his name) at the *beginning* of the story and make the whole Foundation Saga from his POV.
Was also thinking that this would be one approach, ie have R. Daneel Olivaw (or an analogous character if the rights to the robot stories are tied up separately to the Foundation ones) be a more active prime mover behind the stories, popping up in various guises etc.

Another might be to approach the series as a shared word anthology with characters recurring as required.
malfourmed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 06:40 AM   #43
Owain Taggart
Rear Admiral
 
Owain Taggart's Avatar
 
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

malfourmed wrote: View Post
Another might be to approach the series as a shared word anthology with characters recurring as required.

Yeah, that's the kind of approach I've been thinking about.
Owain Taggart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 06:48 AM   #44
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

Just started the 1970s radio play.

Errgh.

The voice of the book is a massive attempt to sound like a bad 50s movie, and they have that typewriter noise in the background like old computers used to make.

Stephen Fry was a Great Hitchhikers guide.

That's what a book should sound like!
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2014, 11:45 AM   #45
Asbo Zaprudder
Rear Admiral
 
Asbo Zaprudder's Avatar
 
Location: Magic realism
Re: Asimov's "Foundation" Series as TV or Movie?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The voice of the book is a massive attempt to sound like a bad 50s movie, and they have that typewriter noise in the background like old computers used to make.
Scott Brick does a great job as the voice of the book in the audiobook versions.
__________________
"Sans le canard de Vaucanson vous n'auriez rien qui fit ressouvenir de la gloire de la France." -- Voltaire -- Flip flap!
Asbo Zaprudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:20 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.