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Old February 22 2014, 12:10 AM   #76
bbjeg
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Kesgasm!

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Old February 22 2014, 12:17 AM   #77
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
You say Hydroponics, but it was aeroponics... So where did she get the bowl of soil she ate for breakfast?
That was Talaxian "soil".
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Old February 22 2014, 12:54 AM   #78
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Beats Talaxian stool.
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Old February 22 2014, 01:01 AM   #79
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

^I hear that's the key to growing Leola Root.
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Old February 22 2014, 02:37 AM   #80
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Christopher wrote: View Post

I did often think it would be interesting to see her interact more with B'Elanna -- that combination was rarely touched on. One of my first pitches to the show was a Kes-B'Elanna focus story. I know Greg Cox had the same idea when he wrote his novel The Black Shore, which pairs those two characters off..
As I've mentioned before, I got that idea from an interview with Roxann Dawson in which she mentioned that she seldom had any scenes with Jennifer Lien, so I thought it would be fun to team them up in The Black Shore. That also gave me a chance to ask (via B'Elanna) the question we all were asking: "What exactly do you see in Neelix anyway?"

Back OT: I always liked Kes. She was sweet and curious and excited to be out exploring the universe, which provided a nice contrast to, say, B'Elanna or Tuvok. You need a diverse mix of personalities on a show like Voyager, and Kes provided the youthful innocence and enthusiasm . . . for awhile at least.
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Old February 22 2014, 02:42 AM   #81
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

The EMH who has to routinely extract grape fruit sized orange hairballs from crew who eat to much in the Mess, almost has enough racially specific surgical waste to create another Neelix.
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Old February 22 2014, 02:52 AM   #82
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Seven of Nine is a cheap trick.


If you fell for that shit, because it's exactly what you had always wanted, you are unfortunately a doe eyed sheep.

It takes no effort to like Seven.
What a gross misjudgement of the character. Insulting to those who enjoyed her.

Unlike Data/Spock and their longing to be human/stoic logic etc Seven was deeper. She is human and she had it robbed from her. She explores her humanity and reconnects with what it means to be human.

I found her journey deep and meaningful and frequently moving. She truly is a victim...and she only barely realizes it.

Also, Jeri Ryan was fantastic in the role and provide one of the strongest performances in the franchise. I certainly dont think that deserves to be belittled.
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Old February 22 2014, 03:36 AM   #83
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

What Jeri was given, and what Jeri did what she was given is different.

Same for what the later writers were given by the network suits that said "You want a Borg dude? Nah. Too much sausage already. Put tits on that idea and come back to us."

Stop trying to pick a fight.
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Old February 22 2014, 03:56 AM   #84
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
What Jeri was given, and what Jeri did what she was given is different.

Same for what the later writers were given by the network suits that said "You want a Borg dude? Nah. Too much sausage already. Put tits on that idea and come back to us."

Stop trying to pick a fight.

Nobody is picking a fight. You led with "if you fell for that shit" etc, seemingly implying that its stupid to like the character. She was great on the show and the character had real depth. Simplifying her to just breasts and nothing else is silly.

Of course she is attractive, that is not a new thing for TV. However her performance was great.
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Old February 22 2014, 04:56 AM   #85
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

I didn't simplify Jeri to her to breasts.

It was the search for humanity, the Borg and her breasts.

You chose to edit that clarification out to make your case.

Which is what I call picking a fight.
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Old February 22 2014, 01:33 PM   #86
TheGoodStuff
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Seven of Nine is a cheap trick.

"Let's take the most interesting thing about Star trek, Data and/or Spocks search for humanity, and wrap it the most interesting thing about TNG: The Borg, and then give it an ample chest so that it will inspire girls to be strong and boy's to look for a small room with a lock on the door."

If you fell for that shit, because it's exactly what you had always wanted, you are unfortunately a doe eyed sheep.

It takes no effort to like Seven.

You are not an explorer or a detective plumbing unfounded layers looking for a kernel of amazingness...

She is a oral sex of Porsches... Or the Porsche of oral sex.

Same difference.

It's not a bad thing to be so middle of the road, I like her too, I can't help it, they designed her for me by committee, but I don't have to like that I like her, and I can be bloody minded and difficult about it.
Everything I bolded [including the mentioning of her breasts] is just derogatory to those who like her.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
I didn't simplify Jeri to her to breasts.

It was the search for humanity, the Borg and her breasts.

You chose to edit that clarification out to make your case.

Which is what I call picking a fight.
I think having such a condescending attitude to people who liked Seven/Jeri is provocative of a fight. Calling people sheep and what she was 'shit to be fallen for' is a smidge provocative no?
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Old February 22 2014, 01:38 PM   #87
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

teacake wrote: View Post
... Endless opportunity to bash Harry because he married her daughter in creepy Woody Allen kinda move.
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Old February 22 2014, 04:50 PM   #88
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Guy Gardener's right with Seven being more of an equation than an original character, though his delivery could have been less harsh, but that's just Guy Gardener. He did mention Jeri Ryan's performance shined so aside from the pretty face, the breast, and the catsuit (was that a Borg corset under that), he states other likable qualities. I too were one of the sceptics who disliked Seven initially because I knew what game they were playing at (it was UPN) and I understand TheGoodStuff's argument. Jeri made me like the character, not her tits. They didn't hurt though.

Back to the OT, I think if they matured Kes faster (not just her abilities, but physically adding more makeup throughout the season), her character would have stood out more. Every year, she should have aged something like 10 human years.

Last edited by bbjeg; February 22 2014 at 05:02 PM.
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Old February 22 2014, 05:48 PM   #89
Guy Gardener
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Seven of Nine is a cheap trick.

"Let's take the most interesting thing about Star trek, Data and/or Spocks search for humanity, and wrap it the most interesting thing about TNG: The Borg, and then give it an ample chest so that it will inspire girls to be strong and boy's to look for a small room with a lock on the door."

If you fell for that shit, because it's exactly what you had always wanted, you are unfortunately a doe eyed sheep.

It takes no effort to like Seven.

You are not an explorer or a detective plumbing unfounded layers looking for a kernel of amazingness...

She is a oral sex of Porsches... Or the Porsche of oral sex.

Same difference.

It's not a bad thing to be so middle of the road, I like her too, I can't help it, they designed her for me by committee, but I don't have to like that I like her, and I can be bloody minded and difficult about it.
Everything I bolded [including the mentioning of her breasts] is just derogatory to those who like her.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
I didn't simplify Jeri to her to breasts.

It was the search for humanity, the Borg and her breasts.

You chose to edit that clarification out to make your case.

Which is what I call picking a fight.
I think having such a condescending attitude to people who liked Seven/Jeri is provocative of a fight. Calling people sheep and what she was 'shit to be fallen for' is a smidge provocative no?
Obviously you have the comprehension skills of a squirrel.

It's not your fault, but it's dangerous for you to go on the internet.

Do not give your bank account details to anyone.
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Old February 22 2014, 08:43 PM   #90
Lynx
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post

I did often think it would be interesting to see her interact more with B'Elanna -- that combination was rarely touched on. One of my first pitches to the show was a Kes-B'Elanna focus story. I know Greg Cox had the same idea when he wrote his novel The Black Shore, which pairs those two characters off..
As I've mentioned before, I got that idea from an interview with Roxann Dawson in which she mentioned that she seldom had any scenes with Jennifer Lien, so I thought it would be fun to team them up in The Black Shore. That also gave me a chance to ask (via B'Elanna) the question we all were asking: "What exactly do you see in Neelix anyway?"

Back OT: I always liked Kes. She was sweet and curious and excited to be out exploring the universe, which provided a nice contrast to, say, B'Elanna or Tuvok. You need a diverse mix of personalities on a show like Voyager, and Kes provided the youthful innocence and enthusiasm . . . for awhile at least.
"The Black Shore" has always been and will remain my favorite Trek novel and I've always seen that book as a good example that it is possible to write good stories for Kes. In the book, all of Kes's great abilities are seen. Her certain powers, her will and determination to find the answer of a mystery, no matter what, how brave she can be while facing the unknown and also her compassion.

But not only that, in the book ALL the main characters get their fair share of action, the story is very exciting from beginning to end and the crew encounters a hostile race which makes the Borg look like a class of well-behaved schoolchildren.

And yes, I really like the interaction between Kes and B'Elanna. It's a pity that we didn't seen so much of that in the TV episodes.

As for me, I remember when I first read the book. I read it from beginning to end without any other pause than for making coffee. It was simply too exciting. Fortunately, it was a Saturday so I had no work and other things which could distract me from reading. I've re-read it a couple of time since then and I still find it very exciting and well-written.
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