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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old February 20 2014, 08:38 PM   #31
Lynx
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

I find Kes a great character, one of the best in Star Trek.

Kes really personifies the spirit of Star Trek with her will to learn and explore. She's beautiful and nice yes, but also strong-willed, determined, brave and curious. She has a way to solve problems by simply go around them and attack them from another angle, something which could be seen in "Resolutions" and "Jetrels", thus winning arguments and finding solutions. She's actually both a contrast and a complement to more typical female action characters like Janeway, Torres and Seven.

Add to this some interesting mental abilities and we have a great character who really contributed to the Voyager story.

Jennifer Lien did a great job in portraying Kes. She really gave life to the character.
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Old February 20 2014, 09:20 PM   #32
Guy Gardener
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

If you are short on cash, and can only afford one happy meal from McDonalds, she can survive on eating dirt.

Think of all the money you won't have to waste taking this woman to the many fancy dinners for anniversaries, birthdays and whatnot if she's happy with a side order of soil and compost?
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Old February 20 2014, 09:53 PM   #33
teacake
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

A double cheeseburger is only 2 dollars now and if you have a kid with you they will give you free water but only in a half filled small paper cup.
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Old February 20 2014, 10:07 PM   #34
Guy Gardener
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

"I WANT THE TOY! I WANT THE TOY! GIVE ME THE DAMN TOY!"

Your children are so old that you blocked out those memories?

Happymeal = $6 = 3 cheeseburgers.

As long as they are sill "children" they will always go for the toy.

A teenager, will take the money for a happymeal, buy a small Fanta, and keep the change.

Besides, I'm medium old and in my heart of hearts I think that cheese burgers should be 95 cents like they were when I was growing up.

Besides, my problem is not the increasing cost of McDonalds as much as it is the increasing number of nephews and nieces I have.

Feeding 3, sometimes 4 of them at that evil eatery is just ridiculous.
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Old February 20 2014, 10:12 PM   #35
teacake
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

You can buy the toy separately for like a dollar fifty. This means if the toy IS cool (which hasn't happened for ages) you buy whatever ones you want and the cheese burger but if the toy isn't cool you just buy the food. Some of the toys are so shit that no one over 5 actually wants them. And they used to have 50 cent cheeseburger tuesdays here, that was awesome.. but the small change menu is still pretty great since the 2 dollar double cheeseburger has 2 patties so is almost as good as your 95 cents for one patty.
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Old February 20 2014, 10:37 PM   #36
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

hux wrote: View Post
You can't create good stories unless you've got a character that inspires you to write good stories....she wasn't developed into anyone interesting enough to deserve good stories and that was the problem. No amount of plot can compensate for poorly conceived and poorly developed characters
You're forgetting, you're talking to someone who was inspired to write a story about her, Places of Exile -- and not to blow my own horn, but I've heard from a lot of people who thought that it was a good story. Kes was a fantastic character. Someone who lives only nine years, who wasn't willing to waste her brief life in a safe, dull environment but who craved discovery and adventure -- that should have been a great character, someone who lived at hyperspeed and eagerly devoured every new experience. There was immense potential there that was left lying fallow.

I mean, this is Voyager we're talking about. The show is all about wasted potential. There were so very many opportunities the show could have taken but either wasn't allowed to by the network or just wasn't ambitious enough to pursue. This has been a source of frustration to many viewers over the years -- which is part of why Places of Exile, a novel that was all about embracing those missed opportunities, has been so well-received by fans. (Also the Distant Shores anthology, which was also written with the goal of fulfilling missed opportunities from the show.)

So the writers' failure to make the most of their characters and premise wasn't due to lack of interesting potential in those characters or that premise. There was a ton of potential that many fans and writers saw, but that the show just wasn't able or willing to embrace. Kes was just one facet of that.
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Old February 20 2014, 10:52 PM   #37
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

hux wrote: View Post

I think Seska may have found a Kes exploring her confidence and sexuality equally breathtaking....they develop a friendship....Seska is curious about Ocampan relationships...Kes mentions their sexual physiology...each time Seska sees Kes, she gently strokes her back (the crew are oblivious to any of this) they're in Sandrines & everyone is chatting, playing pool....Seska is delicately caressing her back (it's their exciting little secret)
I bet Neelix never touches her back like that. I bet he jovially thumps her there when he's talking about himself.
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Old February 20 2014, 11:03 PM   #38
Guy Gardener
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

I didn't know that you could buy the toys separately, or is it that you can't buy the toys separately here, but the youngest child I have to "manage" is almost 8, so he is almost at the stage where I can says 'Wouldn't you rather have a big Mac?"

Deluxe Cheese burgers for $2? Pull the other one. Maybe as a limited offer special, but I find it hard to consider it possible to find a one patty vareity of cheese burger on the 2 dollar menu.

(Yes, I know our different money is only "almost" the same.)

Christopher...

In your opinion, did you think that Kes briefly went home inbetween Caretaker and Paralax?

On one hand Kes might have wanted to get some old clothes she was still keeping at her mums house, knick naks, old books, you know the sort of stuff we all leave at our parents house because it's not entirely essential to leaving home but by Jupiter no bugger is putting my Star Wars toys to the curb on trash day!

On the other hand, they were scard of the kazon and running from the kazon, and it was certain death from the kazon to head back towards Ocampa.
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Old February 20 2014, 11:04 PM   #39
2takesfrakes
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Lynx wrote: View Post
I find Kes a great character, one of the best in Star Trek. Kes really personifies the spirit of Star Trek with her will to learn and explore. She's beautiful and nice yes, but also strong-willed, determined, brave and curious.
"Kes ... personifies the spirit of Star Trek." Wow. Plomeek Broth, try to skim past the Kes criticisms and talk of eating dirt and happy meals, to get to what people like Lynx and Christopher, who know Kes so well, are trying to let you in on. And it's not like Jennifer Lien let the show down, by playing Kes, as these gentlemen and others have indicated. Those making VOYAGER let Jennifer down. But Kes still manages to capture the essence of what STAR TREK is all about. I know I'm getting an education on Kes, in this thread, that I wasn't expecting. And to see those who know the character best expressing their support for her so eloquently, really makes me feel good about enjoying Jennifer Lien's performance and the character of Kes. I think she's wonderful!
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Old February 20 2014, 11:06 PM   #40
Guy Gardener
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

teacake wrote: View Post
hux wrote: View Post

I think Seska may have found a Kes exploring her confidence and sexuality equally breathtaking....they develop a friendship....Seska is curious about Ocampan relationships...Kes mentions their sexual physiology...each time Seska sees Kes, she gently strokes her back (the crew are oblivious to any of this) they're in Sandrines & everyone is chatting, playing pool....Seska is delicately caressing her back (it's their exciting little secret)
I bet Neelix never touches her back like that. I bet he jovially thumps her there when he's talking about himself.
If her reproductive organs are in/on her back, then maybe she's like a Ken doll in her crotchal area, which means that it's perfectly fine to slap her jovially down there?
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Old February 20 2014, 11:15 PM   #41
teacake
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
I didn't know that you could buy the toys separately, or is it that you can't buy the toys separately here, but the youngest child I have to "manage" is almost 8, so he is almost at the stage where I can says 'Wouldn't you rather have a big Mac?"
Yes you can buy them seperately, you just have to ask. I remember the day I discovered that during some particularly exciting release, maybe it was Lilo and Stitch? Anyway..
Deluxe Cheese burgers for $2? Pull the other one. Maybe as a limited offer special, but I find it hard to consider it possible to find a one patty vareity of cheese burger on the 2 dollar menu.
It's called the loose change menu. Some shops don't have it advertised, particularly if they are small, but it's always there. Everything is one dollar or two dollars. It's not a special. Small fries are one dollar, double cheese burger is two dollars..

I just googled it, you have it too!!

You're like the tenth person I've told about this amazing fact.
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Old February 20 2014, 11:15 PM   #42
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
"Kes ... personifies the spirit of Star Trek." (...) But Kes still manages to capture the essence of what STAR TREK is all about.
God, I hope not!
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Old February 20 2014, 11:19 PM   #43
teacake
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
"Kes ... personifies the spirit of Star Trek." (...) But Kes still manages to capture the essence of what STAR TREK is all about.
God, I hope not!
Everyone knows Star Trek is all about Spock. If you need the ONE character to sum it all up, it's him. There isn't even a debate about this, it is the law.
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Old February 20 2014, 11:27 PM   #44
Guy Gardener
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

My vision blurred briefly, and I thought for about 2 seconds that this thread was called "Smell me on Kes".
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Old February 20 2014, 11:41 PM   #45
hux
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Re: Sell me on Kes.

Christopher wrote: View Post
You're forgetting, you're talking to someone who was inspired to write a story about her
I'm not denying her potential or that she may have been liked by many viewers. But for most, i think she was a slight let down. Frankly, i found Mortimer Harren more compelling as a character (with only one episode to go on) than i ever did Kes

I suspect your Kes story is superior to the ones we got in Voyager...alas, i can only judge her by the show. I liked her but she was never taken anywhere interesting (if others love her then fair enough....i certainly didn't want her to leave....personally, i would have rather seen Neelix go and see Kes fulfill that potential....no offence to the Neelix fans...do they exist?)

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
If her reproductive organs are in/on her back, then maybe she's like a Ken doll in her crotchal area, which means that it's perfectly fine to slap her jovially down there?
Does that mean male Ocampans have their genitals on their chest or back?
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