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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old February 21 2014, 03:23 AM   #16
CorporalClegg
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Re: The early seasons :

I look at it his way:

Season one is one great episode and a lot of terrible ones.
Season two is a few good episodes a few okay episode and a lot of terrible ones.
Season Three is a few great episodes a few good episodes and a lot of terrible ones.

Season four and on, then, is best described as a few great episodes, a lot of good ones, and a few terrible ones.
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Old February 21 2014, 09:19 AM   #17
AverageWriter
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Re: The early seasons :

"Season one is one great episode"
Wow, really? Only one great episode?

I guess my standards are different. I absolutely loved Emissary (I count 1 and 2 as two shows). I thought it was one of the strongest "starts" to a Trek series since The Cage. Then we jumped right in with the excellent "Past Prologue", which not only set up a fantastic amount of exposition and backstory for Kira but also brought us the intriguing Garak. And we kept on running with A Man Alone, an incredible Odo-centered show. I will admit, I hated Babel and Q-Less (despite Q being one of my favorite characters), but the show picked up again with "Dax"- ANOTHER excellent character-oriented ep. From that point on, the only bad episodes we got were the DREADFUL, vomit-inducing "If Wishes Were Horses" and "The Forsaken".

All in all, when you really look at it, that means... roughly 16 out of 20 episodes of the first season were excellent. To me, that's pretty damned good.
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Old February 21 2014, 01:01 PM   #18
PaleMoonlight
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Re: The early seasons :

I watched Whispers and The Wire again last night, forgot all about those, very good ones from the early years
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Old February 21 2014, 01:32 PM   #19
Bad Thoughts
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Re: The early seasons :

the show picked up again with "Dax"- ANOTHER excellent character-oriented ep.*
Farrell was such a non-presence in this episode, I find it difficult to call it a character study. Great banter on how justice applies to the individual, and I love how the line "he was in my bed" was delivered with a combination of gusto and shame. However it would have made no difference if Dax had been absent.
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Old February 21 2014, 01:40 PM   #20
AverageWriter
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Re: The early seasons :

Bad Thoughts-
I'm having a difficult time understanding what you mean by "being a non presence". Could you expound on that? Are you referring to Farrell's acting, or about the script itself?
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Old February 21 2014, 01:52 PM   #21
Bad Thoughts
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Re: The early seasons :

AverageWriter wrote: View Post
Bad Thoughts-
I'm having a difficult time understanding what you mean by "being a non presence". Could you expound on that? Are you referring to Farrell's acting, or about the script itself?
Obviously, much of the episode is focused on legal and philosophical concepts as well as the backstory concerning Curzon's affair. Farrell adds nothing to the episode with her acting: no conviction, no sense of obligation. She's simply passive.
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Old February 21 2014, 02:02 PM   #22
AverageWriter
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Re: The early seasons :

"She's simply passive."
Ah, yes, the "Early Season Dax Passivity". I've noticed what you are mentioning. What you are seeing is the difficulty Terry had with the character itself- the directions she had been given basically amounted to "You're playing a girl housing the reincarnated memories of a large group of dead people, most recently an old man. Annnnd GO!"
The actress admitted in an interview (I think it was in one of the Star Trek magazines I have lying around here) that with what she had been given, she had absolutely no idea how to approach the character. This is why in her earliest scenes she has the appearance of trying to be... stoic? Yes, I think stoic is the word.
Later episodes allowed her to expand her natural personality into the character itself, but before then it was kind of like trying to get a foot to fit a new shoe. Sometimes a few blisters did appear.
I doubt that First Season Dax would be running around Ops giggling about "girl crush secrets" with Kira like she did in later seasons, that much is certain.
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Old February 21 2014, 02:30 PM   #23
Bad Thoughts
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Re: The early seasons :

AverageWriter wrote: View Post
"She's simply passive."
Ah, yes, the "Early Season Dax Passivity". I've noticed what you are mentioning. What you are seeing is the difficulty Terry had with the character itself- the directions she had been given basically amounted to "You're playing a girl housing the reincarnated memories of a large group of dead people, most recently an old man. Annnnd GO!"
The actress admitted in an interview (I think it was in one of the Star Trek magazines I have lying around here) that with what she had been given, she had absolutely no idea how to approach the character. This is why in her earliest scenes she has the appearance of trying to be... stoic? Yes, I think stoic is the word.
Later episodes allowed her to expand her natural personality into the character itself, but before then it was kind of like trying to get a foot to fit a new shoe. Sometimes a few blisters did appear.
I doubt that First Season Dax would be running around Ops giggling about "girl crush secrets" with Kira like she did in later seasons, that much is certain.
I can understand having difficulty with technobabble and establishing a new character, but there were basic acting elements that Farrell seemed to fail at. At the bottom of "Dax" was a simple Hollywood trope: taking a fall to protect someone's reputation. The same thing was true of Equilibrium: repressed memories. And of Meridian: the love of your life, whom you've just met, is going away on a long trip. At their core they aren't complex episodes. Farrell might not have grasped her x-number of lifetimes character well, but she could have give a performance that made sense for one lifetime. I also think that the writing problem more reflected the opinion of the actress: in Equilibrium, the writers decided it was better to have Jadzia sedated at the moment it was announced that there was a murderer among her personalities and that the Trill board was going to kill her to protect their secret. That reflects a lack of confidence in the actress more than a uncertainty in the writing.
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Old February 21 2014, 02:33 PM   #24
AverageWriter
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Re: The early seasons :

I suppose I just don't see the failure you're seeing. I mean, I saw some passivity, but nothing that really reached "bad acting" level, at least from my perspective.

Of course, it could be that in my recent viewing I had just watched "Code of Honor" before this one. Really, really awful, acting- awful in the "burn this DVD" kind of way.
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Old February 21 2014, 08:27 PM   #25
timtonruben359
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Re: The early seasons :

I don't think the earlier seasons were terrible, but it's clear going back and watching the earlier years that the writers hadn't found their footing yet. That being said, the quality of the first two seasons of DS9 was way better than TNG's first two years.

It was clear from the get go that DS9 was always going to be far more character based than TNG or TOS before it, but I felt a lot of the first season episodes still had a 'TNG vibe' to them. The first season in particular felt at times like TNG on a space station. I think in season 2 and season 3 they started branching out and doing stuff that for the most part could only be done on DS9 and by Season 4 they knocked it out of the park.

To this day, DS9 remains the best of the franchise for me.
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Old February 21 2014, 08:45 PM   #26
Bad Thoughts
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Re: The early seasons :

AverageWriter wrote: View Post
I suppose I just don't see the failure you're seeing. I mean, I saw some passivity, but nothing that really reached "bad acting" level, at least from my perspective.

Of course, it could be that in my recent viewing I had just watched "Code of Honor" before this one. Really, really awful, acting- awful in the "burn this DVD" kind of way.
Code of Honor was a bad episode, almost from top to bottom. Almost every Jadzia episode has something to recommend it. Whether that thing is Terry Farrell's acting is debatable. IMO, that something is usually came from another actor: Anne Haney as the Bajoran judge; John Glover as the symbiont thief; Brooks and Auberjonois in the roles of Joran and Curzon; and Susannah Thompson as the lost love.
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Old February 24 2014, 07:11 PM   #27
Navaros
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Re: The early seasons :

Season 1 has more bad episodes than good episodes. The stories in Season 1 are also generally not worthwhile SciFi ideas. I.e. Q comes to the Station and causes some mischief - who cares?

Season 1 also has a lot of bad acting from Siddig and Visitor.

Plus, Visitor's acting in Season 1 is as annoying as nails on a chalk board. Likewise, the Bajorans in Season 1 constantly whine about how much they hate being oppressed, which just amplifies the annoyingness/unwatchability factor tenfold.

Season 1 also little character or story development in it.

Season 2 has more great episodes a few worthwhile SciFi stories, but still has plenty of bad episodes and far too much Bajoran whining.

DS9 doesn't get consistently good until the Season 2 finale, because that is when the Dominion comes on board, and thankfully, starts to prevent much precious screen-time & episode slots from being wasted on Bajorans.

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
For me, seasons one and two are DS9's finest. Later, as "the war" arc is introduced and then painfully drawn out to the point of extreme tedium, the show goes down hill. Episodes like "Take Me Out To The Holosuite" were a welcome relief.
I disagree. The war was under-developed because instead of going full throttle with the war story, they kept breaking it up and inserting pointless filler episodes between the war episodes.

On the other hand, nothing is more tedious than hearing Bajorans cry "Woe is me! Pity me!" for the 10 000th time. All they needed to do was to say that once in Emissary; once would have been more than enough. Instead, that cry became the defining characteristic of what a Bajoran is.
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Old February 24 2014, 09:44 PM   #28
DS9forever
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Re: The early seasons :

"Q-Less" is a lot better than people think; its probably the first comedy episode of the series.
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Old February 25 2014, 02:44 PM   #29
Trek Survivor
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Re: The early seasons :

I don't understand the indifference to the early seasons either.

I loved season one and two, season three wasn't quite as good for me, then season 4-5 were great. For my money (and yes, I know I'm in a minority) season 6-7 were a real disappointment, and felt almost like a 'betrayal' of the earlier series' promise.

"Emissary" is still the best Trek pilot, and still one of the best DS9 episodes made.

"Past Prologue" and "A Man Alone" did a great job of "setting up the stall" of what DS9 would be about, the kind of tone it was going to take.

"Captive Pursuit", "Qless", "Dax", "Nagus", "Vortex", "Battlelines", Storyteller" were all solid entries.

"Duet" and "In the Hands Of The Prophets" were both excellent.

I didn't mind the Dominion War in later stories (though it was painfully dragged out, wished it had wrapped up in season 6), but Behr's obsession in making the show NOTHING BUT got old and I feel DS9 lost more than it gained.
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Old February 26 2014, 12:10 AM   #30
JirinPanthosa
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Re: The early seasons :

For me the early seasons are easier to enjoy after you know what happens later. When you're watching them after just having seen TNG you're watching it through the eyes of expecting a specific thing which it doesn't offer. No exploration? Ferengi running around trying to scam people? Bajoran religion? That's not what TNG gave me!

Then when you've seen the full arc of the show and you get what DS9 is all about and the direction it's headed, and watch the early episodes again, it all clicks.

Also, a lot of the characters weren't well fleshed out at that point in the series, but then when you watch again after having seen the full series, you see their future established traits in them.
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