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Old February 16 2014, 07:58 PM   #16
TheGoodStuff
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Re: Star Trek Currency

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
One of the most telling examples of why replicators aren't a magical cure-all, is one of those families who does not have a replicator (by choice, in this case): The Picards.

As we know from "Family", Robert Picard refused to allow replicators in his home. I'm guessing this is continuing from the tradition long established by the family. In any case, the Picard family takes great time and care in making their wine. Why would you think they would do that? They don't just do it to occupy their time - no one would. It takes a LOT of work to put into something like that. So the natural conclusion is that the Picards make a comfortable living from selling the family wine - like any decent wine maker would.
I must admit I totally disagree. Society has completely changed. NOW we wouldn't think of doing that because our society is solely about money.

However, the theory goes, that with money dead and people allowed to do as they wish...some really would put all that effort in because they simply love the wine. They enjoy the [literal] fruits of their endeavours and bringing happiness to those who enjoy drinking it.

For example, I interpret Sisko's dad running a resturaunt...because he loves the thought of cooking for people and running a facility where people come together, share first dates, anniversaries and where old friends catch up.

Our, current society, is so focused on money and greed that these things become bizarre which is sad. And another reason why I love ST.
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Old February 16 2014, 08:11 PM   #17
USS Triumphant
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Re: Star Trek Currency

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
So the natural conclusion is that the Picards make a comfortable living from selling the family wine - like any decent wine maker would.
The other possible conclusion is that they require no money when they go to the "markets" that are maintained as much as social meeting places as anything else, and that the people who "sell" them their goods for free probably DO replicate a good bit of it and look at them like we do the Amish.
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Old February 16 2014, 08:20 PM   #18
T'Girl
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Re: Star Trek Currency

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
The pursuit of wealth is no longer the driving force for humanity ...
But Humans are only a small percentage of the Federation, maybe less than one percent. Nog said the Humans gave up currency, not the Federation as a whole.

When Humans are outside of Earth's economy, traveling among the many Member planets of the greater Federation, they are goin' be a needin' money.

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Old February 16 2014, 08:38 PM   #19
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Star Trek Currency

The pursuit of wealth may no longer be the driving force, but it can still be A force. Just not the main one. FWIW.

@GoodStuff: Why put all the effort into making that wine if there is no compensation for it? It's human nature to want that. That will never change, not in a million years.

And it's interesting that you bring up Sisko's restaurant. Not only do I think that it also makes some money from serving customers, but logically speaking, if eating there was free all the time, the lines would be uncontrollable - there'd be thousands of people waiting outside at all hours. And the Siskos could not possibly serve all of those people - they'd have to have an army of fellow chefs to serve a crowd that huge.

Not only does putting a monetary price on goods help make money from selling them, it also serves to control the crowd a bit: it makes people wait until they have the money before they can buy it. And, by controlling the supply (not letting it be emptied within seconds due to the crowds who would descend upon it), it helps equalize things a bit.

If something is free, everyone can have it, everyone will want it, and everyone will try to get it.
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Old February 16 2014, 08:44 PM   #20
TheGoodStuff
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Re: Star Trek Currency

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The pursuit of wealth may no longer be the driving force, but it can still be A force. Just not the main one. FWIW.

@GoodStuff: Why put all the effort into making that wine if there is no compensation for it? It's human nature to want that. That will never change, not in a million years.

And it's interesting that you bring up Sisko's restaurant. Not only do I think that it also makes some money from serving customers, but logically speaking, if eating there was free all the time, the lines would be uncontrollable - there'd be thousands of people waiting outside at all hours.

Not only does putting a monetary price on goods help make money from selling them, it also serves to control the crowd a bit: it makes people wait until they have the money before they can buy it.

If something is free, everyone can have it, everyone will want it, and everyone will try to get it.
1. The compensation IS the fact that you made it successfully. The bonus is that other people want to drink it. 'Compensation' as you put it is a thought process from OUR time. 'Compensation' can take many forms and sadly overlooks the joy of creating something yourself.

2. The lines would not be uncrontrollable because there would be thousands of people who also loved cooking who would own similar resturaunts. I confess that I had thought the episode never depicted any financial transaction....

3. Replicators have solved all of this. Who cares if someone is handing out free food, free wine or free fishing hooks? I can just replicate some. The wine, or food has a different connotation if it is real. That is the appeal but its hardly likely to produce mass rioting if some guy starts serving bolognese for free.


Also wealth IS still pursued. However it is intellectual wealth, mental wealth. Happiness and fulfillment are wealth. Not coins or numbers.
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Old February 16 2014, 08:46 PM   #21
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Re: Star Trek Currency

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
And it's interesting that you bring up Sisko's restaurant. Not only do I think that it also makes some money from serving customers, but logically speaking, if eating there was free all the time, the lines would be uncontrollable - there'd be thousands of people waiting outside at all hours.
The lines would not be uncrontrollable because there would be thousands of people who also loved cooking who would own similar resturaunts.
Similar, maybe, but as far as we know, there's only one actual Sisko's Creole Kitchen. If you want Sisko's food, you eat at Sisko's place. Unless you're suggesting it's a chain...
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Old February 16 2014, 08:50 PM   #22
TheGoodStuff
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Re: Star Trek Currency

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
And it's interesting that you bring up Sisko's restaurant. Not only do I think that it also makes some money from serving customers, but logically speaking, if eating there was free all the time, the lines would be uncontrollable - there'd be thousands of people waiting outside at all hours.
The lines would not be uncrontrollable because there would be thousands of people who also loved cooking who would own similar resturaunts.
Similar, maybe, but as far as we know, there's only one actual Sisko's Creole Kitchen. If you want Sisko's food, you eat at Sisko's place. Unless you're suggesting it's a chain...
Ha, I doubt it is a chain. However I suspect it is local, quaint and plods along just fine. If he decides to not open one day...eh who cares? Im just in this society people are happy to wait or make reservations or beam over to Inverness and sample the cuisine in bonnie Scotland.
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Old February 16 2014, 09:59 PM   #23
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Re: Star Trek Currency

It might even be that the goal of someplace like Sisko's is replicator pattern optimization. Sisko's dad is always trying to make new dishes, and to make his existing dishes better, and he keeps scans of each attempt and makes what he regards as the best examples available on the network. People come into his place for the novelty of actually eating there and also because when you're in the restaurant, you can possibly request a dish or a modification and get a scan of that, for your own replicator preferences.
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Old February 16 2014, 10:07 PM   #24
TheGoodStuff
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Re: Star Trek Currency

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
It might even be that the goal of someplace like Sisko's is replicator pattern optimization. Sisko's dad is always trying to make new dishes, and to make his existing dishes better, and he keeps scans of each attempt and makes what he regards as the best examples available on the network. People come into his place for the novelty of actually eating there and also because when you're in the restaurant, you can possibly request a dish or a modification and get a scan of that, for your own replicator preferences.
Awesome observation. I like that idea.
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Old February 17 2014, 01:24 AM   #25
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Re: Star Trek Currency

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
It might even be that the goal of someplace like Sisko's is replicator pattern optimization.
Except in one episode we see Ben Sisko in the back alley scrubing shellfish. If you don't scrub the outer shell of the shellfish, then when you cook them and the shell naturally open the filth on the outside gets on the meat on the inside.

Why would Joe Sisko replicate shellfish with filth on the outer shells?

He doesn't, they're real shellfish and not manufactured shellfish. Joe serves real food in his restaurant, and he makes a nice financial income doing it. People would pay for the food and for the ambiance and for Joe's charming company.

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
Also wealth IS still pursued. However it is intellectual wealth, mental wealth. Happiness and fulfillment are wealth. Not coins or numbers.
Human also pursue the penthouses on top of those towers we see, and some buy boats, some buy mountain houses, and some buy entire planets.


Last edited by T'Girl; February 17 2014 at 01:36 AM.
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Old February 17 2014, 01:45 AM   #26
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Re: Star Trek Currency

T'Girl wrote: View Post
USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
It might even be that the goal of someplace like Sisko's is replicator pattern optimization.
Except in one episode we see Ben Sisko in the back alley scrubing shellfish. (snip)
Why would Joe Sisko replicate shellfish with filth on the outer shells?
You either missed what I meant or I wasn't clear - I'll allow it could have been either. But of course he uses unreplicated ingredients! I wasn't trying to say he programs it all into the replicator or replicates ingredients to cook his dishes, but that he scans each completed recipe and decides to make some available across the network so that when you're on some ship patrolling the Romulan Neutral Zone or whatever and you tell a replicator that you want a bowl of Sisko's dirty rice you can have that.
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Old February 17 2014, 05:52 AM   #27
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Re: Star Trek Currency

But would scanning a dish, taking that information, entering it into a replicator's memory, result in the replicator being able to reproduce the original dish?

Riker said to Data (in Time Squared) that a replicator lacked the ability to produce "subtlety."

If I make a dish, let's say beef stroganoff, and simply dump all the ingredients and spices in at the same time, then let it cook, it wouldn't taste right. Everything would be there and in the proper proportions, and it would be just as nutritious.

But it wouldn't taste right.

The ingredients have to be prepared in the proper sequence, meat marinated over night, mushrooms aged for multiple days, things cooked at different temperatures, spices added in the correct order at different points. Pasta cooked al dente then quenched. Sour cream on the side, never mixed in.

From the time you order a dish, until the replicator delivers it to you, is only a few seconds.

Nutritious I'm sure.


Last edited by T'Girl; February 17 2014 at 06:10 AM.
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Old February 17 2014, 01:06 PM   #28
USS Triumphant
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Re: Star Trek Currency

T'Girl wrote: View Post
But would scanning a dish, taking that information, entering it into a replicator's memory, result in the replicator being able to reproduce the original dish?
There's a lot of confusion about how the transporters and replicators work - and since some of it has resulted in some of my favorite episodes, I don't mind too much. But really, if you scan something down to the smallest subatomic level, and then recreate that something from that scan with the resolution necessary for a transporter, the result should be an object or being that is exactly the same as the original. Even if your scan resolution wasn't that high for replicator items, flavor works at the molecular level anyway, so it still shouldn't be an issue.

My theory on why food tastes funny coming out of the replicators that are operated by Starfleet is that Starfleet Medical is having the system automatically adjust certain things to insure proper nutrition for crews and to try to keep them from getting overweight.
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Old February 17 2014, 02:25 PM   #29
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Re: Star Trek Currency

Thank you all for your thought, i went from very confused.... to even more confused.... to understanding many views thanks all
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Old February 17 2014, 11:56 PM   #30
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Re: Star Trek Currency

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
But would scanning a dish, taking that information, entering it into a replicator's memory, result in the replicator being able to reproduce the original dish?
There's a lot of confusion about how the transporters and replicators work - and since some of it has resulted in some of my favorite episodes, I don't mind too much. But really, if you scan something down to the smallest subatomic level, and then recreate that something from that scan with the resolution necessary for a transporter, the result should be an object or being that is exactly the same as the original. Even if your scan resolution wasn't that high for replicator items, flavor works at the molecular level anyway, so it still shouldn't be an issue.

My theory on why food tastes funny coming out of the replicators that are operated by Starfleet is that Starfleet Medical is having the system automatically adjust certain things to insure proper nutrition for crews and to try to keep them from getting overweight.
They could also be adjusting nutrition content for other reasons. Say someone loves Cheetos(or its 24th century equivalent). They eat Cheetos every chance they get, and can get Cheetos out of the replicator any time of day or night. Medical knows this, and programs the replicators to include basic nutritional needs like vitamins so that crewmember doesn't develop scurvy, or an equivalent condition.
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