RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 145,381
Posts: 5,724,632
Members: 25,779
Currently online: 568
Newest member: GregroxMun

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek Uniform Laptop Bag And Fanny Pack
By: T'Bonz on May 26

Star Trek: The Fifty Year Mission
By: T'Bonz on May 26

Where No Garden Gnome Has Gone Before
By: T'Bonz on May 22

Scotland Yard Trekkie Fear
By: T'Bonz on May 22

Koenig Joins Captain Pike Project
By: T'Bonz on May 22

Retro Review: Ex Post Facto
By: Michelle on May 22

Smallwood: Creating The Xindi
By: T'Bonz on May 21

Greenwood Joins O.J. Simpson Series
By: T'Bonz on May 21

The USS Enterprise Building
By: T'Bonz on May 20

Wheaton Guests On Mission Log Podcast
By: T'Bonz on May 20


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy All your nerd stuff goes here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 17 2014, 01:12 AM   #1
JirinPanthosa
Rear Admiral
 
The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoilers)

Moderators: I couldn't find a thread for Game of Thrones where you were not allowed to talk about novels that had not aired on TV yet. If one exists, feel free to move this post to that thread.

In this thread, please consider the spoiler level to be it's okay to talk about things that have already aired on television but not things from novels.

I finally caught up with Game of Thrones and seen season 3. Now, I heard that because of the Red Wedding a lot of people got really pissed and threatened to quit the show. And the South Park parody also made it seem like a lot of really likable characters that had been thoroughly developed were killed.

Then I saw the episode and found out it was only Rob and Catlin Stark.

Is this really what outraged people? First off, it was obvious Rob was going to cause his own downfall the minute he broke his word to marry Lord Fray's daughter. It was even more obvious he was going to die in a hurry when he lost the Carstark's. Second off, he was never one of the more likable characters. If it were, say, Arya or Tyrian, I would totally get it. But was Rob ever that popular a character?
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 01:27 AM   #2
sidious618
Admiral
 
sidious618's Avatar
 
Location: New York, US
Send a message via AIM to sidious618
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

Robb was a favorite, especially among women, and Catelyn was liked by quite a few people (including yours truly). Plus, we had the pregnant Talisa brutally stabbed and Grey Wolf arrowed. Looking at the macro picture, this heralds the end of the North in the war of the kings. I'd say it was pretty freaking brutal.
__________________
We've met before, haven't we?
sidious618 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 01:42 AM   #3
theenglish
Rear Admiral
 
theenglish's Avatar
 
Location: Suriname
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

I never heard any "outrage", but rather surprise and WTF comments.

I think what throws people is that there is not really a major protagonist "good guy" to the series. Ned Stark was the closest, and after him people imagined it would be Rob.

For me, the series is about those who are weak struggling against odds to become more powerful--and it has been since A Clash of Kings. This is not to say those who are weak survive or win, but it is the journey for those characters that is interesting.

I guess what I am saying is that Caitlin's death was more emotional for me than Rob's (maybe because we always got her perspective in the books) and that the characters I grew attached to were the younger children.

Man, you made it hard by not allowing spoilers after season three!!!
theenglish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 01:57 AM   #4
{ Emilia }
Light my fire
 
{ Emilia }'s Avatar
 
Location: City of Night
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

This is pretty much how I felt about it because... "I read the fucking books".

__________________
Try to set the night on fire.
{ Emilia } is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 02:34 AM   #5
JirinPanthosa
Rear Admiral
 
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

I liked Robb and Catelyn more early in the series than in season 3. In season 3 their story seemed stagnated, all Robb did the season was alienate allies. In fact, I would say given his decisions leading up to his death, having him still win wouldn't have made sense. And, while it was terrible to see Robb's wife killed like that, they really didn't develop her that much in the TV series, so my connectedness to her wasn't there.

I would list my favorite characters though as Arya, Tyrian, Denerys, Bran, and my favorites among the secondary cast include Samuel and Brien. My favorites all survived the season in ways that made it seem like their role would expand in the future, and even my 'Love to hate' characters like Tiwyn survived.

I suppose it would feel different if they were your favorite characters, but it makes a difference to me because they weren't innocent heroes butchered for no reasons, they were characters who made bad decisions that predicted their death.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 03:24 AM   #6
Mr Light
Admiral
 
Location: Pennsylvania
View Mr Light's Twitter Profile
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

It was shocking to me because Robb Stark was the character driving the plot, even though he was often off-screen. He was the one leading the war against the King and winning.
__________________
Z List Author. www.derekbeebe.com
Mr Light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 05:24 AM   #7
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: USAF 1947-1972
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

But is that really the plot?
Nerys Myk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 01:47 PM   #8
Mr Light
Admiral
 
Location: Pennsylvania
View Mr Light's Twitter Profile
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

I would say that the show is about the civil war between the various "Kings", and it all started because Robb Stark declared war over his father's death.
__________________
Z List Author. www.derekbeebe.com
Mr Light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 02:03 PM   #9
Starkers
Admiral
 
Starkers's Avatar
 
Location: White Wolf House
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

I love Game of Thrones, but I have to say I found season 3 a bit much at times. And it wasn’t even just The Red Wedding, although that was pretty brutal, if anything it was the torture of Theo that disturbed me more, even though he kinda had it coming to him it was just so relentless and sadistic. Earlier in the season Jamie losing his hand was pretty fucked up as well.

I’m not a prude, I’m not opposed to violence and brutality in fiction in the slightest and I appreciate that GoT is set in a brutal world, but season 3 did feel a little like the producers of the show were saying “How can we outdo ourselves” and that’s worrying if they keep that going, because I don’t want to keep watching a show going out of its way to shock the audience just because it can.

It also bothered me that none of the villains seemed to get any comeuppance in S3. Again it’s not like I expect the good guys to always win, not like I really think there are any genuine good guys in GoT, but I’d like to see the producers throw us the occasional bone, it’d be quite cathartic to see a few people get their comeuppance, even if I can appreciate they’re probably not going to kill Joffrey any time soon and I appreciate that they don’t want to deviate too much from the books.

A friend described season 3 as Medieval Hostel and that seems a fair assessment in some ways. Brutality is fine but I want the story to lead the violence, not the other way around.
__________________
Werewolves on the moon
Safe House "Bond meets the Haunting!"
Starkers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 02:51 PM   #10
selina
Fleet Captain
 
selina's Avatar
 
Location: in the shadows
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

I never heard about an outrage regarding the wedding, but it was definitely one of the biggest WTF moments I ever had while watching a tv-series. I remember sitting home alone and saying aloud: "Now, I didn't see that coming".
Then again I don't read the books and I avoid spoilers like the plague. However, it surprises me that JirinPanthosa in the original post states that Robb's death was obvious. I assumed there would be consequences, given that he broke his word but not such dramatic ones. Frey could have denied access to his bridge (it was a bridge, wasn't it?) and withdrawn his troops instead of killing everyone. And to be fair, Robb offered a replacement, Edmure Tully. Not an ideal solution, but in medieval times people had a much more pragmatic attitude towards marriage.

Furthermore, it isn't just about the popularity of these characters, but more about the brutality and disrespect for human dignity with which the slaughtering took place. Arya got lucky because she arrived a few minutes too late. Frey wouldn't have spared her. And now Frey is on good terms with the Lannisters, of course, for killing their strongest opponent. This tells me that killing the Starks was really about power, not about honour. So, the whole dynamic changes. Which is a good thing and the reason why I love this show, but ... yeah ... it was definitely a WTF moment that led to this.
selina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 03:09 PM   #11
Takeru
Fleet Captain
 
Takeru's Avatar
 
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I would say that the show is about the civil war between the various "Kings", and it all started because Robb Stark declared war over his father's death.
I always thought declaring war over Ned's death almost made Robb a bad guy.
If you think about it Joffrey had every right to execute Ned, he had just publicly confessed to treason and that he wanted to get rid of Joffrey and claim the throne for himself, his execution was politically stupid but justified especially Joffrey didn't know the truth about his parents.
The Starks aren't even opposed to chopping people's heads off, Ned killed the poor schmuck who ran from the Night's watch and Robb executed Lord Karstark for not following his orders and murdering the Lannister boys and he sees nothing wrong with that but if his father is executed for treason that means war? Robb was a hypocritical asshat who obviously thought rules applied to others but not the Starks. I'm glad he's dead, he was a dumbass.
Takeru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 04:06 PM   #12
Rowan Sjet
Commodore
 
Rowan Sjet's Avatar
 
Location: Away!
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

Starkers wrote: View Post
I love Game of Thrones, but I have to say I found season 3 a bit much at times. And it wasn’t even just The Red Wedding, although that was pretty brutal, if anything it was the torture of Theo that disturbed me more, even though he kinda had it coming to him it was just so relentless and sadistic. Earlier in the season Jamie losing his hand was pretty fucked up as well.

I’m not a prude, I’m not opposed to violence and brutality in fiction in the slightest and I appreciate that GoT is set in a brutal world, but season 3 did feel a little like the producers of the show were saying “How can we outdo ourselves” and that’s worrying if they keep that going, because I don’t want to keep watching a show going out of its way to shock the audience just because it can.

It also bothered me that none of the villains seemed to get any comeuppance in S3. Again it’s not like I expect the good guys to always win, not like I really think there are any genuine good guys in GoT, but I’d like to see the producers throw us the occasional bone, it’d be quite cathartic to see a few people get their comeuppance, even if I can appreciate they’re probably not going to kill Joffrey any time soon and I appreciate that they don’t want to deviate too much from the books.

A friend described season 3 as Medieval Hostel and that seems a fair assessment in some ways. Brutality is fine but I want the story to lead the violence, not the other way around.
It's not really the producer's fault considering all those things happened (with some minor changes) in the books. Blame Martin!
__________________
And the sign said, "Long haired freaky people need not apply..."
Rowan Sjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 04:13 PM   #13
Starkers
Admiral
 
Starkers's Avatar
 
Location: White Wolf House
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

I haven't read any of the books, so I could be mistaken but, for example, I don't beleve a pregnant woman's stabbed in the womb in the books.
__________________
Werewolves on the moon
Safe House "Bond meets the Haunting!"
Starkers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 04:28 PM   #14
Locutus of Bored
The Locutest One of All
 
Locutus of Bored's Avatar
 
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

Starkers wrote: View Post
if anything it was the torture of Theo that disturbed me more
I couldn't believe that Dr. Huxtable didn't even care when they sent him his son's severed penis, and left it up to Rudy to form a rescue party. That was a dark season.

I don't know if I'd call the reaction most people (who hadn't read the books) had "outrage." It was more shock. I know lots of people who were shocked by the Red Wedding, and a couple who half-seriously said they'd quit watching, but they were back for the next episode and they'll be back for this next season. Me on the other hand, I was one of those jerks who was laughing his ass off as everyone else in the house who hadn't read the books was screaming "WTF just happened?!!!"
__________________
'First Contact' is the tale of a man who just wants to cash in on his creation so he can get wasted on an island full of naked women, but his fans keep insisting that he's a saintly visionary who has profoundly altered the world. AKA - 'I Don't Want to be a Statue: The Gene Roddenberry Story.'
Locutus of Bored is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 05:18 PM   #15
Marc
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: An Aussie in Canukistan
Send a message via ICQ to Marc
Re: The deaths in GoT season 3: Why the outrage? (Season 1-3 spoiler

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I would say that the show is about the civil war between the various "Kings", and it all started because Robb Stark declared war over his father's death.
Wasn't helped by his mother's capture of Tyrian and taking him to the Eyrie either.
__________________
Gentlemen you can't fight in here - this is the war room.

Pres. Merkin P. Muffly
Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.