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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old February 16 2014, 08:50 AM   #31
Mr. Adventure
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

^ That's funny, inspired by this thread I watched The Empath and was noticing how "Lost in Space" it looked as I checked out the West of Mars episode the other night. The name tags for the specimens reminded me of the similar labels in the bar from that episode (and ultimately probably like the Batman TV show). The constant teleport blink in/out and sound effect reminded me of LiS as well.
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Old February 16 2014, 11:56 AM   #32
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Here's from the Final Draft script of "The Last Gunfight" by Lee Cronin, dated May 9, 1968:


Scene 20 EXT. DESERT

The men are standing in the same position as before the optical.

Scene 21 OPTICAL

AS THE MEN LOOK ACROSS THE BARREN LANDSCAPE, SUDDENLY A STYLIZED SALOON EXTERIOR POPS IN. THE STARTLED MEN LOOK AROUND AND THE FALSE FRONT OF A NEWSPAPER OFFICE WITH ITS CUSTOMARY BULLETIN BOARD IN FRONT POPS INTO VIEW.



So, by the final draft, at least, the script was calling for a more surreal western town. If it had been done as a cost-saving measure, that decision was made while the script was still undergoing revision.
Is the the only description? Because "stylized" could mean almost anything other than looking normal. I certainly don't get "surreal" from that (a word almost everyone uses to mean something "bizarre" rather than what surrealism actually means).
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Old February 16 2014, 03:34 PM   #33
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
"The Empath" not only used the same affordable staging as an LIS episode, it used the actual freezing tubes from the Jupiter 2, probably rented from whatever prop house bought them from Fox.
Trek borrowing from LIS?

Oh, the pain!
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Old February 16 2014, 03:37 PM   #34
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

Green Shirt wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
"The Empath" not only used the same affordable staging as an LIS episode, it used the actual freezing tubes from the Jupiter 2, probably rented from whatever prop house bought them from Fox.
Trek borrowing from LIS?

Oh, the pain!
Shhh, don't tell D.C. Fontana.

Apparently she had quite a burr in her shorts regarding LIS.
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Old February 16 2014, 03:37 PM   #35
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
The blacked-out-sound-stage look was a trick Lost in Space had used many times.
And the third season of Batman, which was also from 20th Century Fox and had art director Jack Martin Smith and set decorator Walter M. Scott in common with LiS.


Maurice wrote: View Post
Is the the only description? Because "stylized" could mean almost anything other than looking normal. I certainly don't get "surreal" from that (a word almost everyone uses to mean something "bizarre" rather than what surrealism actually means).
Well, "stylized" clearly means that it looks different from reality. And "surreal" literally means "beyond the real." Naturally there's plenty of room for interpretation between the script and the screen, but the script was clearly indicating an unreal quality to the environment.
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Old February 16 2014, 06:54 PM   #36
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

Also, while I understand that "stylized" might be open to interpretation, I think that a stage direction that indicates that the Newspaper Office is just a "false front" is less open to interpretation.



Christopher wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
The blacked-out-sound-stage look was a trick Lost in Space had used many times.
And the third season of Batman, which was also from 20th Century Fox and had art director Jack Martin Smith and set decorator Walter M. Scott in common with LiS.


Maurice wrote: View Post
Is the the only description? Because "stylized" could mean almost anything other than looking normal. I certainly don't get "surreal" from that (a word almost everyone uses to mean something "bizarre" rather than what surrealism actually means).
Well, "stylized" clearly means that it looks different from reality. And "surreal" literally means "beyond the real." Naturally there's plenty of room for interpretation between the script and the screen, but the script was clearly indicating an unreal quality to the environment.
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Old February 16 2014, 08:03 PM   #37
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

Harvey wrote: View Post
I'd say that the "planet of the hats" syndrome which set in during late season two ("Bread and Circuses," "Patterns of Force," "The Omega Glory," and "A Piece of the Action") was the beginning of a serious decline which the budget cuts of season three only exacerbated, so I'm glad that "Spectre of the Gun" took an alternate approach.
Though in S3 they got away from the hats-planet conceit. (Great phrase, by the way.) Granted, there was decline in other ways. Less location, more bottles, worse writing and, arguably, acting. I'm on record preferring much of S3 to the comedy and rut of S2.

I think a difference between LIS and Spectre is simple execution, too. Looking at the screencaps from an aesthetic standpoint its Trek by a mile. And I know people are LIS music fans here, but the unique Spectre score is great.
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Old February 16 2014, 09:23 PM   #38
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

I can't lay claim to the phrase, but it's a good one. Although, reading that, my definition of the term might be a bit narrow.

And I'd go so far as to agree that season three was wise to abandon the concept...but it had a host of other problems that weigh most of it down for me.
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Old February 17 2014, 04:14 AM   #39
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Green Shirt wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
"The Empath" not only used the same affordable staging as an LIS episode, it used the actual freezing tubes from the Jupiter 2, probably rented from whatever prop house bought them from Fox.
Trek borrowing from LIS?

Oh, the pain!
Shhh, don't tell D.C. Fontana.

Apparently she had quite a burr in her shorts regarding LIS.
Wonder what her view was. Any idea?
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Old February 17 2014, 04:25 AM   #40
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

middyseafort wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Green Shirt wrote: View Post

Trek borrowing from LIS?

Oh, the pain!
Shhh, don't tell D.C. Fontana.

Apparently she had quite a burr in her shorts regarding LIS.
Wonder what her view was. Any idea?
Her opinion of LIS was...less than complimentary.
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Old February 17 2014, 04:34 AM   #41
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
middyseafort wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Shhh, don't tell D.C. Fontana.

Apparently she had quite a burr in her shorts regarding LIS.
Wonder what her view was. Any idea?
Her opinion of LIS was...less than complimentary.
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Old February 17 2014, 07:40 PM   #42
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

I think that both "Spectre of the Gun" and "West of Mars" episodes would have been improved by simply having a real world setting outside of the sound stage. Had they both been filmed outside on a backlot western street they would have been much more entertaining to watch.
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Old February 17 2014, 08:04 PM   #43
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

Galileo7 wrote: View Post
I think that both "Spectre of the Gun" and "West of Mars" episodes would have been improved by simply having a real world setting outside of the sound stage. Had they both been filmed outside on a backlot western street they would have been much more entertaining to watch.
Would they really? Or would they have just looked like the countless other '60s TV episodes shot on the same Western backlots that viewing audiences saw every week? Would something so commonplace-looking have really been more entertaining to audiences at the time?
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Old February 17 2014, 09:50 PM   #44
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

Speaking of surreal, Will and Dr. Smith getting away by riding the "animals" seen in the first picture is something to see.
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Old February 17 2014, 10:56 PM   #45
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Re: "Spectre of the Gun" set "West of Mars"?

If you get back to the root, the surrealism movement, at least in visual arts, frequently featured the irrational juxtaposition of images, which I daresay the LIS version (wheeled taxidermed animals in front sketchy buildings and other oddities) is much closer to surreal than Trek's limbo sets, which are more "incomplete" than surreal.

To me it's like people using "art deco" as a catchall describe anything from art nouveux to googie, when deco is actually something pretty specific.

Okay, so my ex is an artist and an art history major, so I've had this discussion 100 times before.

I think what we're forgetting here is that these shows were produced coming out of the pop art movement, so I think some of this minimalism has roots in that in addition to being cheap to execute.
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