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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old February 21 2014, 07:15 AM   #31
2takesfrakes
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

It's a little confusing, because STAR TREK tries to embody, it seems, this sense of idealism that's shown by the Space Hippies. And yet, because they were still followers who could be led, they are branded as blind fools for following someone mentally unstable. This show could've transcended the sixties and the hippy movement if it had been more about how lasting change truly takes place. Instead it's pretty straightforward and easily concluded, which is a shame. As for the music, I do fast forward through that crap, when I rarely put it on.
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Old February 21 2014, 07:43 AM   #32
teacake
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

I love this episode, it is a box of happy candy. Music is hilarious, storyline is touching (yes) to see how earnest and deluded people can still be in the future. Many amusing moments
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Old February 21 2014, 08:20 AM   #33
Gov Kodos
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

Lance wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
And these hippies, as I've said before, aren't the real deal, and would have been scorned by an actual hippy from the 1960's if they ever traveled forward in time to the 23rd-24th centuries and saw how good it was to live on Earth then.
Hm, the sad thing about the script is that it goes for the "all those stinkin' hippies..." viewpoint, with Spock being one of the only regular characters to truly conceed that their lifestyle is a valid one. (Btw, I do love that it's Spock who jams with them, a man truly understanding 'counter culture', or at least appreciating it to some degree). The likes of Captain Kirk and Mister Scott come across very pooly, both being painted as overly authoritarian, and bizarrely lacking in understanding (even if Kirk himself conceeds he "used to get in trouble" when he was the hippies' own age). This is all largely because the script represents them as being "the man". But again, the script goes on to prove "the man" right, because the so-called Hippies are portrayed as just being naive and are ultimately led to their deaths by a mad-man with belief systems that are displayed to be irrational, at least in terms of the script.

To be honest the whole script has got this tonal problem I mention, unable to decide whether it wants to celebrate counter-culture ("infitinite diversity" and all that), or whether it wants to decry it as a threat to rational society. I think the former position is more in keeping with the Star Trek 'message', but the script ultimately ends with a bad taste in the mouth, because it reaffirms the latter position that these "dirty stinkin' hippies" need to "get a haircut and a real job". Which I think is unfortunate.
You described the episode's faults to a tee. It isn't the hippies that are the problem but the hopelessly mundane approach. Kirk may as well sat in his chair yelling at them to get hair cuts and jobs. The episode could have been any average 'kids need to grow up parochialism'. It's a shame they didn't use it to show validity to their counter culture approach to the Federation norm instead of them being just deluded and following a mad man.
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Old February 21 2014, 12:31 PM   #34
Lance
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

^ Ultimately the script calls for more ambiguity, which it sadly doesn't deliver on.
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Old February 21 2014, 12:57 PM   #35
ZapBrannigan
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

The original writer of "A Private Little War" had a similar complaint about Gene Roddenberry's re-write. The final episode seems to come out in favor of U.S. intervention in Vietnam, a very "Establishment" position at the time and not what the writer expected from GR.
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Old February 21 2014, 02:16 PM   #36
bbailey861
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
And these hippies, as I've said before, aren't the real deal, and would have been scorned by an actual hippy from the 1960's if they ever traveled forward in time to the 23rd-24th centuries and saw how good it was to live on Earth then.
Hm, the sad thing about the script is that it goes for the "all those stinkin' hippies..." viewpoint, with Spock being one of the only regular characters to truly conceed that their lifestyle is a valid one. (Btw, I do love that it's Spock who jams with them, a man truly understanding 'counter culture', or at least appreciating it to some degree). The likes of Captain Kirk and Mister Scott come across very pooly, both being painted as overly authoritarian, and bizarrely lacking in understanding (even if Kirk himself conceeds he "used to get in trouble" when he was the hippies' own age). This is all largely because the script represents them as being "the man". But again, the script goes on to prove "the man" right, because the so-called Hippies are portrayed as just being naive and are ultimately led to their deaths by a mad-man with belief systems that are displayed to be irrational, at least in terms of the script.

To be honest the whole script has got this tonal problem I mention, unable to decide whether it wants to celebrate counter-culture ("infitinite diversity" and all that), or whether it wants to decry it as a threat to rational society. I think the former position is more in keeping with the Star Trek 'message', but the script ultimately ends with a bad taste in the mouth, because it reaffirms the latter position that these "dirty stinkin' hippies" need to "get a haircut and a real job". Which I think is unfortunate.
You described the episode's faults to a tee. It isn't the hippies that are the problem but the hopelessly mundane approach. Kirk may as well sat in his chair yelling at them to get hair cuts and jobs. The episode could have been any average 'kids need to grow up parochialism'. It's a shame they didn't use it to show validity to their counter culture approach to the Federation norm instead of them being just deluded and following a mad man.
This episode is at, or next to the bottom, of my TOS favourites listing but there have been some very interesting comments here for me to think about. I'll be interested to see how this episode's process progressed from start to finish when the third "These Are the Voyages" book comes out. I am hoping there are some valuable insights/memos etc to show what happened. Perhaps we'll see a few concrete examples of script changes from first write to the filmed product.
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Old February 22 2014, 07:29 AM   #37
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

I watched this around 1972 or 3. Even then, it was hopelessly dated and seemed like many shows written by adults about young people that were just, well, stupid.
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Old February 22 2014, 07:38 AM   #38
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
The original writer of "A Private Little War" had a similar complaint about Gene Roddenberry's re-write. The final episode seems to come out in favor of U.S. intervention in Vietnam, a very "Establishment" position at the time and not what the writer expected from GR.
It'll be interesting to hear what Cushman's book has to say about this, but all my research suggests this isn't true.
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Old February 23 2014, 09:17 PM   #39
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

Spock:
"They regard themselves as aliens in their own worlds, a condition with which I am somewhat familiar."

That line either speaks directly to you, or its just the dumb hippy episode.
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Old February 24 2014, 02:25 AM   #40
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

Eden's counterpart on Lost in Space was called "Collision of Planets," which aired about 16 months earlier. Daniel J. Travanti (Hill Street Blues) and Linda Gaye Scott (Little Fauss and Big Halsy) are excellent in their guest-hippy roles, but Jonanthan Harris steals the show as usual when he contracts a Samson-like condition that gives him super strength. Scott using her sex appeal to manipulate (and later emasculate) Harris as Dr. Smith was, for that show, some pretty hot stuff.

Since both episodes ended up (or were bound to be) ridiculous, I would argue that LIS took the wiser course and made their version a comedy on purpose.

Gerald Fried ("Amok Time", "Friday's Child") wrote the music for "Collision of Planets", and you can hear faint strains in common with his score to "The Paradise Syndrome." I remember knowing it was him in the LIS episode before reading the credits.
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Old February 24 2014, 02:45 AM   #41
Melakon
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

"The Way to Eden" first aired in 1969, when I was 18, and I remember hating it even then. I enjoyed seeing Skip Homeier again in it, but that bald cap and those seashell ears he wore just looked ridiculous. The songs more resemble the folk era from a few years earlier than any contemporary rock of the time.

Then again, as Adam would say, I was pretty stiff back then, and definitely Herbert.

Edit: And before anyone asks (because it's been asked before a few times), I left Dr. Sevrin out of my avatar sequence in case anyone was already using him.
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Last edited by Melakon; February 24 2014 at 02:56 AM.
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Old February 24 2014, 03:32 AM   #42
Push The Button
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Eden's counterpart on Lost in Space was called "Collision of Planets," which aired about 16 months earlier. Daniel J. Travanti (Hill Street Blues) and Linda Gaye Scott (Little Fauss and Big Halsy) are excellent in their guest-hippy roles, but Jonanthan Harris steals the show as usual when he contracts a Samson-like condition that gives him super strength. Scott using her sex appeal to manipulate (and later emasculate) Harris as Dr. Smith was, for that show, some pretty hot stuff.

Since both episodes ended up (or were bound to be) ridiculous, I would argue that LIS took the wiser course and made their version a comedy on purpose.

Gerald Fried ("Amok Time", "Friday's Child") wrote the music for "Collision of Planets", and you can hear faint strains in common with his score to "The Paradise Syndrome." I remember knowing it was him in the LIS episode before reading the credits.
Daniel J. Travanti, that's a name that I haven't heard in a very long time. Good old Captain Furillo himself.
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Old February 25 2014, 07:04 PM   #43
Shik
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

Melakon wrote: View Post
"The Way to Eden" first aired in 1969, when I was 18, and I remember hating it even then. I enjoyed seeing Skip Homeier again in it, but that bald cap and those seashell ears he wore just looked ridiculous. The songs more resemble the folk era from a few years earlier than any contemporary rock of the time.

Then again, as Adam would say, I was pretty stiff back then, and definitely Herbert.

Edit: And before anyone asks (because it's been asked before a few times), I left Dr. Sevrin out of my avatar sequence in case anyone was already using him.
I always thought Skip & Russell Johnson should've played as brothers in something, just like I'd like to see Bruce Willis & Jerry Doyle as brothers in something.
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Old February 28 2014, 09:29 PM   #44
PCz911
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

And here is someone playing it on ukulele

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/po...ID=1&archive=0
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Old February 28 2014, 09:44 PM   #45
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Re: Going to Eden ... Yea brother

I have always that this episode was one or two re-writes away from being a really good episode. I'm not going to gainsay anyone's criticisms since they are many and mostly valid, but I will say that it was a touching moment when Spock says as he stands over Chuck Napier's body "his name was Adam". If the rest of the script had been as good as that one line, it would have been very good indeed.
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