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Old March 27 2014, 04:20 PM   #226
largo
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Re: Probert's REAL N.C.C.-1701-C

it's the war doctor's enterprise. the one which nobody acknowledges.
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Old March 27 2014, 04:25 PM   #227
Robert Comsol
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Re: Probert's REAL N.C.C.-1701-C

DATA: There is a high degree of probability that the temporal rift is symmetrical, Captain.
PICARD: Then what would happen if the Enterprise C were to fly back through it?
DATA: Back, sir? The Enterprise C would emerge in her own time period at almost the same instant she left.
PICARD: Right in the middle of the battle with the Romulans. DATA: Yes, sir.

Mytran wrote: View Post
However it would be an odd definition of a "symmetrical" tunnel if it had different behaviour at each end. Maybe Data simply meant a ship could travel both ways?
It's pretty ambiguous and apparently speculation on Data's part (just a "high degree of proabability").

There are uncertainties involved, but frankly I wondered why the Enterprise-C risked re-entering the rift head-on. With Romulan warbirds apparently pursuing the ship, the re-entry could have resulted in a head-on collision of the "C" with a warbird, resulting in the instantaneous destruction of two ships.

The one thing we can be assured of, is that time-wise the spatial anomaly was not symmetrical. At the arrival point several hours equalled only seconds at the original point of entry.

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
The Enterprise that jumped back in time should have detected or encountered the Enterprise enroute to Psi2000 or doing something else given that the time-traveling Enterprise took the same path.
Why? They were travelling back in time but additionally with some warping effect that could have placed the "older" Enterprise at a different location than the "younger" one.

Knowing that their "younger" counterparts would resolve the situation, the older crew decided not to interfere with past events and let history successfully unfold as it did and was expected to happen.

But I notice that retroactive continuity with its overwriting, revising and rebooting characteristics now also serves as a tool to rationalize illogical time travel scenarios - "overwriting" has apparently become Star Trek's new trademark tool.

Bob
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Old March 27 2014, 04:38 PM   #228
Dukhat
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Re: Probert's REAL N.C.C.-1701-C

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Of course, from a real life production point of view, we shouldn't forget that the series was made for general, average and ordinary people (that's what I meant with "normal" in the closed TNG thread).
Anyway, I provided an in-universe explanation, but anything that could suggest that the Enterprise-C on the wall display is canon, authentic and genuine is obviously not what some people here want to hear.
I'm looking forward to explanations why he made Guinan and Sela say something differently...I really wonder who is in need of explaining.
The one thing I increasingly notice in this discussion is that most participants have no problem accepting the revisionistic nature of retroactive continuity, but are utterly unable to accept the possibility that a revision could equally itself be revised - and with the consequence that an erased design (Probert's Enterprise-C) has been restored like the supposedly revised timeline in "Yesterday's Enterprise".
Or maybe, just maybe, it's your self-righteous and pompous holier-than-thou attitude in statements such as the above that is turning people off to your theories, not that they actually have a problem with what you believe.

NOT ONCE have you said, "hey, yeah, maybe it can be interpreted another way than what I'm speculating," or "okay, sure, I might be wrong here" when people point out flaws in your theories. It's always "no, your wrong, these are the facts, and here's why" with you, along with some thinly veiled insults toward us to the effect of why you "simply can't understand why we don't think they way you do," and accuse us of doing something no one actually did (desecrating your holy relic Probert design). Perhaps if you didn't always think you are right 100% of the time and the rest of us are wrong 100% of the time, people would take you more seriously. You may not like Sojourner's "translation," but he's spot on. This discussion serves no purpose because trying to reason with someone who is so dead-set on believing his own dogma is pointless. I've asked a moderator to close this thread, but they have so far chosen to ignore me. At least some meaningful discussion about "Tomorrow is Yesterday" is going on here.

And I'm sure you'll come right back in response and say that you've done nothing of the sort and simply cannot understand why I would say something like this. It's what I've come to expect from you.
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Old March 27 2014, 05:06 PM   #229
STRenegade
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Re: Probert's REAL N.C.C.-1701-C

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Of course, from a real life production point of view, we shouldn't forget that the series was made for general, average and ordinary people (that's what I meant with "normal" in the closed TNG thread).
Anyway, I provided an in-universe explanation, but anything that could suggest that the Enterprise-C on the wall display is canon, authentic and genuine is obviously not what some people here want to hear.
I'm looking forward to explanations why he made Guinan and Sela say something differently...I really wonder who is in need of explaining.
The one thing I increasingly notice in this discussion is that most participants have no problem accepting the revisionistic nature of retroactive continuity, but are utterly unable to accept the possibility that a revision could equally itself be revised - and with the consequence that an erased design (Probert's Enterprise-C) has been restored like the supposedly revised timeline in "Yesterday's Enterprise".
Or maybe, just maybe, it's your self-righteous and pompous holier-than-thou attitude in statements such as the above that is turning people off to your theories, not that they actually have a problem with what you believe.

NOT ONCE have you said, "hey, yeah, maybe it can be interpreted another way than what I'm speculating," or "okay, sure, I might be wrong here" when people point out flaws in your theories. It's always "no, your wrong, these are the facts, and here's why" with you, along with some thinly veiled insults toward us to the effect of why you "simply can't understand why we don't think they way you do," and accuse us of doing something no one actually did (desecrating your holy relic Probert design). Perhaps if you didn't always think you are right 100% of the time and the rest of us are wrong 100% of the time, people would take you more seriously. You may not like Sojourner's "translation," but he's spot on. This discussion serves no purpose because trying to reason with someone who is so dead-set on believing his own dogma is pointless. I've asked a moderator to close this thread, but they have so far chosen to ignore me. At least some meaningful discussion about "Tomorrow is Yesterday" is going on here.

And I'm sure you'll come right back in response and say that you've done nothing of the sort and simply cannot understand why I would say something like this. It's what I've come to expect from you.
His theories seem to have more plot holes the JJ movies combined.
One I noticed from his theories is that because he relocates the Yesterday's Enterprise to an alternate Timeline, that means the C must be an alternate as well.
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Old March 27 2014, 05:30 PM   #230
beamMe
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Re: Probert's REAL N.C.C.-1701-C

STRenegade wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
STRenegade wrote: View Post

What are you talking about?
This comment was only for the altenate War Timeline, since it is unknown whether or not it continued. It has nothing to do with the Mirror Universe (already established as a parallel universe despite any interactions with the Prime one) or the JJverse (how you came to that conclusion is beyond me) which exists because Prime Spock and Nero went backwards in time (only way to rectify that timeline is if Spock and Nero were pulled back to their time the second they arrived in the past).
You are trying to make a distinction were none exists.
Why do you separate the alternative timeline we see in YE from the one in "Mirror Mirror", the one we see briefly in "First Contact" or the one from "Star Trek"?
Because once again did the War Timeline continue or not, or was it part of some temporal event that was rectified when the E-C went back? There is a distinction, and it is that while the Mirror and JJ (unfortunately) universes are permanent, the War Timeline is up for question as to whether or not it is.
Whatever. Your "unfortunately" tells me, that I shouldn't have any further conversation with you.
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