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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old March 5 2014, 09:55 PM   #106
Savage Dragon
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

The "R" in TNG-R is for remastered, not re-imagined. I am very happy they went this route.
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Old March 5 2014, 10:27 PM   #107
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

JJohnson wrote: View Post
That's only in the intro. Take a look in any episode so far remastered and look at the windows. Can you see inside any of them? No. Pure light. Check out TOS Remastered at ship flybys. You can see inside the windows.
Like you said, it's in the intro so technically you can see inside the windows in every episode

In all seriousness though, you stated "That kind of remastering and detail work you can't get with physical models," which is clearly wrong, as seen in the picture posted previously.


TheSeeker wrote: View Post
The "R" in TNG-R is for remastered, not re-imagined. I am very happy they went this route.
Agreed.
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Old March 5 2014, 11:49 PM   #108
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

JJohnson wrote: View Post
The exact same 'entering orbit' shot gets old as does the same warp-through-the-viewpoint-of-the-neck-with-stars-at-odd-angles shot we see multiple times an episode it seems.
That's TNG.
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Old March 6 2014, 12:15 AM   #109
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
JJohnson wrote: View Post
The exact same 'entering orbit' shot gets old as does the same warp-through-the-viewpoint-of-the-neck-with-stars-at-odd-angles shot we see multiple times an episode it seems.
That's TNG.
And that's TOS...and DS9....and Voyager....and Enterprise. Making needless tweaks hurts the product. I give a pass to TOS-HD because frankly, the effects for TOS have always sucked. It was always about Kirk/Spock/McCoy.

TOS-HD, even with redone CGI effects, uses the same establishing model shots over and over again, even more than TNG does. I don't think there was an original Enterprise shot in the entire 3rd season of TOS, it was all stock footage.

JJohnson wrote: View Post
I can't wait for JJ Abrams to add lens flares all over every single ship, and change the sizes of established ships within the same movie just because they can.
But that's exactly what you are now asking for with TNG-HD, for them to change stuff just because they can.
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Old March 6 2014, 02:22 AM   #110
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

If CBS-D had done to TNG what they did with TOS, I would never have bought the seasons. I wanted to see the show, with all the original footage, as it was never capable of being broadcast back in the day. The quality of the physical models has been very impressive and the extra polish CBS-D adds to the mix gives everything just a little more pizazz. It's how I remembered it....even though I know it never looked that good.

Planets are all recreated in CG as well as anything they don't have the original footage for, but they recreate that missing footage with such artistic restraint, it's difficult to tell it's CGI. That hull scraping shot from Unification is a good example. Among the best work they've done I think.
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Old March 6 2014, 02:37 AM   #111
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

NewHorizon wrote: View Post
If CBS-D had done to TNG what they did with TOS, I would never have bought the seasons.
You do know all the original TOS FX were retained in the remaster, right? The added FX had nothing to do with the remaster, they were simply an added bonus one can choose -- or not -- on the BD. When TOS was remastered, every bit of the original episode, including all the original FX, was remastered in HD. Seems to be a big misconception about TOS's HD remaster. In fact, TOS's remaster is truer to the original than is TNG's remaster.

True the original FX elements weren't available, so a lot of the shots look like crap, but some of them actually hold up pretty well in HD. And, in any case, that's just the way the show actually looks on film, warts and all.
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Old March 6 2014, 03:56 AM   #112
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
NewHorizon wrote: View Post
If CBS-D had done to TNG what they did with TOS, I would never have bought the seasons.
You do know all the original TOS FX were retained in the remaster, right? The added FX had nothing to do with the remaster, they were simply an added bonus one can choose -- or not -- on the BD. When TOS was remastered, every bit of the original episode, including all the original FX, was remastered in HD. Seems to be a big misconception about TOS's HD remaster. In fact, TOS's remaster is truer to the original than is TNG's remaster.

True the original FX elements weren't available, so a lot of the shots look like crap, but some of them actually hold up pretty well in HD. And, in any case, that's just the way the show actually looks on film, warts and all.
There's a difference there. The original TOS effects were on 35mm film, so they could be ported for Blu-ray. They look very dirty and run-down, but it's still 35mm film and not 480i video. For TNG, the only option is to do a full remaster. I suppose CBS could have decided to do CGI effects similar to TOS-HD, but they wouldn't have done that AND the way they actually look. It would have been one or the other.

If they had gone the 'George Lucas' route for TNG, then fans would have screamed bloody murder. Overall, I'm happy with the CGI in TOS-HD, except for the liberties they took in The Doomsday Machine - it's too cartoonish. The fact that the original material is there at my fingertips eliminates my gripes. Either way, TNG-HD only would have one option with no possibility of branching, and I'm glad they chose to present everything as they originally looked, only redone in HD. Not "because we can" changes.
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Old March 6 2014, 04:56 AM   #113
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Trailer. Need the trailer.
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Old March 6 2014, 06:20 AM   #114
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

mr.peany wrote: View Post
Trailer. Need the trailer.
Yeah can't wait for the Trailer. There's a lot of stuff that happens in Season 6 that they can feature, such as Scotty's appearance and DS9. Hopefully it's a little more serious than the Season 5 trailer, which I was a little disappointed in.
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Old March 6 2014, 06:29 AM   #115
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
JJohnson wrote: View Post
The exact same 'entering orbit' shot gets old as does the same warp-through-the-viewpoint-of-the-neck-with-stars-at-odd-angles shot we see multiple times an episode it seems.
That's TNG.
And that's TOS...and DS9....and Voyager....and Enterprise. Making needless tweaks hurts the product. I give a pass to TOS-HD because frankly, the effects for TOS have always sucked. It was always about Kirk/Spock/McCoy.

TOS-HD, even with redone CGI effects, uses the same establishing model shots over and over again, even more than TNG does. I don't think there was an original Enterprise shot in the entire 3rd season of TOS, it was all stock footage.

JJohnson wrote: View Post
I can't wait for JJ Abrams to add lens flares all over every single ship, and change the sizes of established ships within the same movie just because they can.
But that's exactly what you are now asking for with TNG-HD, for them to change stuff just because they can.
With all due respect, that's not what I'm asking for with respect to JJ changing things. I'm asking for more visual variety. What harm is there in changing the orbit shots up with new ones? Check Shore Leave (25:46); Conscience of the King (2:20-2:47); the extended digital matte in Man Trap; those are three examples. When the TNG crew visited a planet with a straight orange background, what harm is there in rotoscoping in a backdrop to make it look like a real planet? Or having a stock of two to four new entering, exiting, or in-orbit, and at-warp establishing shots with new angles on the ship? I'm not talking George-Lucas-style-JJ-Abrams going crazy with everything, just adding new angles. Instead of establishing orbit the exact same way 178 times with the camera looking up and left, why not from the top of the saucer, head-on, from the bottom, or have a pass-over like seen in those two TOS episodes? Or Man Trap's (48:22-48:29)? That would still be respectful in my opinion. It looks like your minds are dead-set on having everything exactly the same without deviation since the model shots are there. That's fine. I simply think this was a great opportunity not to need the same exact five shots of the Enterprise over and over again, and add a few different angles where appropriate, and this opportunity is being wasted.
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Old March 6 2014, 08:03 AM   #116
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

The opportunity doesn't exist. TOS-HD took liberties which some fans complain about to this day. From your perspective, TNG-HD didn't take any liberties, and so you complain. Just enjoy it for what it is, what it has always been (only in HD now). Your loss if you don't.
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Old March 6 2014, 11:41 AM   #117
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

jimbotron wrote: View Post
I suppose CBS could have decided to do CGI effects similar to TOS-HD, but they wouldn't have done that AND the way they actually look. It would have been one or the other.
Well, if you're arguing from a practicality standpoint, they probably wouldn't have the budget to go fully CGI either. In fact, they arguably don't really have the budget to recomp the model shots for 178 episodes, but they've gone and done it anyway (and hope to recoup it over the long term)!

But if we're arguing purely from a no-holds-barred wishlist of things, then fully-branching options for original SD effects, recomped HD effects and new CGI alternate effects would obviously be the ultimate product, disc-space permitting.

As it stands, however, these Blu-rays are not a "missed opportunity", they are "the only opportunity", and we're very lucky to even get what we have!
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Old March 6 2014, 03:07 PM   #118
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
You do know all the original TOS FX were retained in the remaster, right? The added FX had nothing to do with the remaster, they were simply an added bonus one can choose -- or not -- on the BD. When TOS was remastered, every bit of the original episode, including all the original FX, was remastered in HD. Seems to be a big misconception about TOS's HD remaster. In fact, TOS's remaster is truer to the original than is TNG's remaster.

True the original FX elements weren't available, so a lot of the shots look like crap, but some of them actually hold up pretty well in HD. And, in any case, that's just the way the show actually looks on film, warts and all.
Yep, I am aware of this and purchased the Bluray sets on sale for 50 dollars because the original effects were available. TNG would not have been able to do both remastered original effects and CGI revamps, so if they had gone 100% CGI, i would not have bought these sets.
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Old March 6 2014, 07:31 PM   #119
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Start Wreck wrote: View Post
Well, if you're arguing from a practicality standpoint, they probably wouldn't have the budget to go fully CGI either. In fact, they arguably don't really have the budget to recomp the model shots for 178 episodes, but they've gone and done it anyway (and hope to recoup it over the long term)!
Right. TOS-HD's CGI was out of necessity. It was that or the original effects copies without the benefit of the original elements. Even if they had the original elements, it still would have not looked good since the methods don't stand up today.

The work by ILM and Image G for TNG more than stands up to modern CGI, just because the model photography was so good. Plus with 80 episodes instead of 178, it was more affordable. Not to mention TOS was not as effects-heavy as TNG was.

Also the business model is different. TOS-HD was done one episode at a time in a random order and sold to syndication. With TNG, they have to work for months and not earn any money until a season is fully complete.

As it stands, however, these Blu-rays are not a "missed opportunity", they are "the only opportunity", and we're very lucky to even get what we have!
Exactly. I thought TNG in HD was a pipe dream 5 years ago. The fact that they're staying true to the original work is icing on the cake.
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Old March 6 2014, 09:15 PM   #120
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Re: Season SIX OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I agree they should have taken opportunity to do a few more changes for visual variety, but I'm not really unhappy with the finished product.
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