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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old February 26 2014, 03:31 PM   #271
JJohnson
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Warped9, I would hope STC checks out "Conscience of the King" as at least 1 example of the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic - Spock suspects Kirk is acting oddly, goes to McCoy with this, then McCoy says that he trusts him to make the right choice. Then the two of them go to Kirk with this, and they hash it out. McCoy isn't over the top, and asks the human question of what he's going to do if it is Kodos, and Spock presents his logical facts, that it is Kodos. I was watching it last night, and it struck me how that episode, one amongst many, showed just how the three worked together and I really enjoyed the three playing off each other. I hope the fan productions can remember this when writing for these three characters, and even when introducing new characters, remember that dynamic. I enjoy the idea of this new character for sure, and she's an obviously intelligent character. I would like to see more of the entire crew, however, and possibly in a "Naked Time" or "Shore Leave" scenario so we can get an idea for what makes her tick, as we have for the other crew.
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Old February 26 2014, 06:09 PM   #272
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I think it's worth remembering just how difficult it is and how long it can take to turn out a fan film. TOS has 26 episodes per season and it seems only natural that at some point some of the secondary characters would get some extra screen time. However, when we're talking about 2 or 3 episodes out of 26 that's not really very many. If a fan produced series does say 2 per year and one of them moves away from a concentration on the big 3 then the ratio definitely seems to shift.
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Old February 26 2014, 06:27 PM   #273
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Two out of twenty or so episodes is a small sample and might not be truly representative of what's to come. Then again the early efforts are conveying a sort of identity of what they're doing with the production. I'm very eager to see Episode 3. I think that's where we'll see a stronger indication of their overall mindset as the series evolves.
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Old February 26 2014, 06:37 PM   #274
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Still, I think one of the central problems with the fan films has been that they really are trying to be like TV shows but they must also compete online in a more feature film mentality.

The old, original TOS films were produced by and large with the expectation that each film would be the last one. Necessarily, they were usually about Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

As we saw though on the future series, focusing on other characters could yield impressive results. Look at Worf, and what a tragic character he turns out to be, thanks to all his Klingon arc episodes. Or Data and his quest to be human. Look at Odo and his searc for where he came from/who he "is." Or Kira's entire arc as the survivor of the holocaust on Bajor.

The point is, fan films could stand to shake things up a bit. The heavy hitters have all dipped their toes in the water with this with the vignettes/shorts they've released (the curious variations of "Night Shift" that Exeter, Phase II, and Continues have each produced, etc.). That's why I like Continues, because not only has it produced two superb episodes, it's also lit a fire, I think, under the Phase II production. Any semblence of complacency as the heir apparent is clearly gone and there's a definite creative rivalry at play, not just behind the scenes (as we know from previous discussions here) but also now a genuine quest to make the best TOS fan film possible. That's not, in my opinion, a bad thing. (All the douchebaggery on both sides, however, very much is.)

So if a good story comes along that might better feature Uhura or McCoy, great! As it is, "Lolani" was a fantastic endeavor, and while if it had been produced in the '60s, yes, it may well have featured Uhura in the McKennah role, it also likely may well have not done so.

Lastly, going back to McKennah: The bottom line is you guys can complain about her all you want. She's not going anywhere; she's going to be a part of Continues whether you like it or not. I said it above: None of these fan films will ever be TOS. It's why we had a Kirk with Elvis hair for 10 years and have had more people play Spock that James Bond or Doctor Who. (Ok, I'm exaggerating but you get my point.) Yes. Let's put aside the fact that Specht is Vic Mignogna's partner/girlfriend/fiancee/whatever. Clearly the production team wanted to have some ties to The Next Generation era and that's one of the functions McKennah fills on the show

Star Trek fans are just about the most insufferable people when it comes to finding things not to like. Let it go. Like it or love it. There's still a great fan film there to enjoy. Is it perfect? No. But is it good enough?

As Warped9 has mentioned ad nauseum, the production crew at Star Trek Continues has been made aware of the concerns. The other thing to consider (and I know this is tough for some of you old-timers out there) is that her presence is unavoidably the marriage of a semi-professional production produced in 2014 trying to recapture the look, feel and atmosphere of a professional network TV series from 1966-1969. There is just no way modern considerations would not factor in to this.

One last bit: Warped9: We get it. You like Star Trek Continues. But could you maybe lay off the backhanded stealth digs at TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, and the Abrams films in every single post you make? I much prefer reading your critiques and praise for the fan film that finally won your praise for meeting your stratospheric expectations in terms of content and quality... but the same old song and dance about how much you hate the rest of the franchise is getting tiresome to read and I just don't have the time, energy or inclination to sift through your screeds to find the stuff I'm actually interested in reading. Thanks!
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Old February 26 2014, 07:23 PM   #275
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Still, I think one of the central problems with the fan films has been that they really are trying to be like TV shows but they must also compete online in a more feature film mentality.

The old, original TOS films were produced by and large with the expectation that each film would be the last one. Necessarily, they were usually about Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

As we saw though on the future series, focusing on other characters could yield impressive results. Look at Worf, and what a tragic character he turns out to be, thanks to all his Klingon arc episodes. Or Data and his quest to be human. Look at Odo and his searc for where he came from/who he "is." Or Kira's entire arc as the survivor of the holocaust on Bajor.

The point is, fan films could stand to shake things up a bit. The heavy hitters have all dipped their toes in the water with this with the vignettes/shorts they've released (the curious variations of "Night Shift" that Exeter, Phase II, and Continues have each produced, etc.). That's why I like Continues, because not only has it produced two superb episodes, it's also lit a fire, I think, under the Phase II production. Any semblence of complacency as the heir apparent is clearly gone and there's a definite creative rivalry at play, not just behind the scenes (as we know from previous discussions here) but also now a genuine quest to make the best TOS fan film possible. That's not, in my opinion, a bad thing. (All the douchebaggery on both sides, however, very much is.)

So if a good story comes along that might better feature Uhura or McCoy, great! As it is, "Lolani" was a fantastic endeavor, and while if it had been produced in the '60s, yes, it may well have featured Uhura in the McKennah role, it also likely may well have not done so.

Lastly, going back to McKennah: The bottom line is you guys can complain about her all you want. She's not going anywhere; she's going to be a part of Continues whether you like it or not. I said it above: None of these fan films will ever be TOS. It's why we had a Kirk with Elvis hair for 10 years and have had more people play Spock that James Bond or Doctor Who. (Ok, I'm exaggerating but you get my point.) Yes. Let's put aside the fact that Specht is Vic Mignogna's partner/girlfriend/fiancee/whatever. Clearly the production team wanted to have some ties to The Next Generation era and that's one of the functions McKennah fills on the show

Star Trek fans are just about the most insufferable people when it comes to finding things not to like. Let it go. Like it or love it. There's still a great fan film there to enjoy. Is it perfect? No. But is it good enough?

As Warped9 has mentioned ad nauseum, the production crew at Star Trek Continues has been made aware of the concerns. The other thing to consider (and I know this is tough for some of you old-timers out there) is that her presence is unavoidably the marriage of a semi-professional production produced in 2014 trying to recapture the look, feel and atmosphere of a professional network TV series from 1966-1969. There is just no way modern considerations would not factor in to this.

One last bit: Warped9: We get it. You like Star Trek Continues. But could you maybe lay off the backhanded stealth digs at TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, and the Abrams films in every single post you make? I much prefer reading your critiques and praise for the fan film that finally won your praise for meeting your stratospheric expectations in terms of content and quality... but the same old song and dance about how much you hate the rest of the franchise is getting tiresome to read and I just don't have the time, energy or inclination to sift through your screeds to find the stuff I'm actually interested in reading. Thanks!
The above is your opinion, which you have a right to express; but please don't go and essentially piss all over or dig at other's opinions because you don't feel they are valid, or you don't care to read them. Which id how al lot of the above comes off.

Post your opinions, and allow others to post theirs in the manner they wish.
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Old February 26 2014, 07:31 PM   #276
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

EDIT: Never mind.
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Last edited by doubleohfive; February 26 2014 at 08:11 PM.
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Old February 26 2014, 07:56 PM   #277
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Oh cool a petty argument is about to begin. Well, see you in a page or two when this thread gets back on topic!
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Old February 26 2014, 08:09 PM   #278
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Mr_Homn wrote: View Post
Oh cool a petty argument is about to begin. Well, see you in a page or two when this thread gets back on topic!
Nope. No fighting. Let's go back to the discussion, shall we?
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Old February 26 2014, 08:44 PM   #279
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Mr_Homn wrote: View Post
Oh cool a petty argument is about to begin. Well, see you in a page or two when this thread gets back on topic!
Nope. No fighting. Let's go back to the discussion, shall we?
Let us here pause to remember the words of Chief Joseph: "I will fight no more, forever!"
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Old February 26 2014, 09:15 PM   #280
Maurice
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Noname Given wrote: View Post
doubleohfive wrote: View Post
...
The above is your opinion, which you have a right to express; but please don't go and essentially piss all over or dig at other's opinions because you don't feel they are valid, or you don't care to read them. Which id how al lot of the above comes off.

Post your opinions, and allow others to post theirs in the manner they wish.
I am guessing (since you quoted the entire post instead of singling out what bothered you) that this may be in reference to what he wrote about Warped9.

Other than that, his pointing out the tendency of fans to tear down what they love is Absolutely Right™. There's no pissing on or digging at other people's opinions, just disagreement with some.
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Old February 26 2014, 09:38 PM   #281
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
One last bit: Warped9: We get it. You like Star Trek Continues. But could you maybe lay off the backhanded stealth digs at TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, and the Abrams films in every single post you make? I much prefer reading your critiques and praise for the fan film that finally won your praise for meeting your stratospheric expectations in terms of content and quality... but the same old song and dance about how much you hate the rest of the franchise is getting tiresome to read and I just don't have the time, energy or inclination to sift through your screeds to find the stuff I'm actually interested in reading. Thanks!
I will express my opinions in my own way in the manner I see fit. If you take them as stealth digs then that's your issue.

I think this discussion of this subject has actually been rather civil otherwise.
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Old February 26 2014, 09:40 PM   #282
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Random thoughts:

I re-watched this episode again, and I want to say again how awesome Lou Ferrigno was. An inspired choice for the role.

Also, I am sold on Vic as Kirk, and I'm sure he will get even better as more episodes are released.

The guy playing spock needs a lot of work but he's growing on me. Spock is probably the hardest character to play, though. Nimoy is just one of a kind.

Chris Doohan is perfect.

Most of the actresses in the show give off way too many "modern" vibes for me, if that makes sense. Too many 90s/00s/10s inflections and mannerisms. But it's a minor annoyance and maybe they are doing it intentionally.

I don't mind the Mckennah character that much but I agree with the camp that says she steps out of line too much with her Captain. Only Bones is really allowed to do that. If this continues I hope Kirk addresses the issue with some disciplinary action. Captain Kirk does not get P-whipped.
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Old February 26 2014, 10:03 PM   #283
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Mr_Homn wrote: View Post
Most of the actresses in the show give off way too many "modern" vibes for me, if that makes sense. Too many 90s/00s/10s inflections and mannerisms. But it's a minor annoyance and maybe they are doing it intentionally.
Yes, I've had a similar feeling. But I really noticed it with McCoy when he said there was evidence Lolani had been in a "scrap." It just didn't sound like something McCoy would have said. No biggee, but I did notice it.
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Old February 26 2014, 10:27 PM   #284
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Writing in the vernacular of a bygone era is tricky. A friend of mine wrote a screenplay set in 1954 and had one character describe another as "awesome" and I went, "ummmm...." And he was alive in 1954!

You don't realize how much language changes in subtle ways. A great example is that Mad Men, which is fairly pedantic on such things, still slips and has characters using words and phrases uncommon in its time period, like "leveraged" and characters saying "you need to" when in 1960s they'd more likely have said "you ought to".

Also, there's a modern American trend where many younger women talk higher and go up on the last syllables of words (a la Valley Speak) which isn't how women spoke in the 60s.
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Old February 27 2014, 12:15 AM   #285
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
doubleohfive wrote: View Post
One last bit: Warped9: We get it. You like Star Trek Continues. But could you maybe lay off the backhanded stealth digs at TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, and the Abrams films in every single post you make? I much prefer reading your critiques and praise for the fan film that finally won your praise for meeting your stratospheric expectations in terms of content and quality... but the same old song and dance about how much you hate the rest of the franchise is getting tiresome to read and I just don't have the time, energy or inclination to sift through your screeds to find the stuff I'm actually interested in reading. Thanks!
I will express my opinions in my own way in the manner I see fit. If you take them as stealth digs then that's your issue.

I think this discussion of this subject has actually been rather civil otherwise.
Asked and answered. Thanks.

I did not suggest that the conversation had been uncivil. Merely I pointed out that you seem unable to couch your praise for Star Trek Continues without also taking simultaneous pot shots at the various professional productions in the franchise you have always compained about. I thought perhaps you could be reasoned with to maybe dial it back a bit without leaping to the conclusion that I was trying to censor you (which I wasn't) but clearly that was an error on my part.

Everyone else: Please note: That's not me trolling Warped9. That's some constructive criticism about his posting style here, in this thread and this forum.

However, I digress and will drop the issue. Carry on.
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Last edited by doubleohfive; February 27 2014 at 12:43 AM.
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