RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 143,074
Posts: 5,593,988
Members: 25,384
Currently online: 481
Newest member: MarkDaniels

TrekToday headlines

Hurley Passes
By: T'Bonz on Feb 26

USS Excelsior Model Coming Soon
By: T'Bonz on Feb 25

Hemsworth To Host SNL
By: T'Bonz on Feb 25

Quinto To Guest Star On HBO Comedy
By: T'Bonz on Feb 25

Wheaton To Voice Firefly Game
By: T'Bonz on Feb 24

Nimoy Health Scare
By: T'Bonz on Feb 24

Star Trek #42 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Feb 23

Trek Actors At The Oscars
By: T'Bonz on Feb 23

Retro Review: The Changing Face of Evil
By: Michelle on Feb 21

Star Trek-Themed Van Sold
By: T'Bonz on Feb 20


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Fandom > Fan Productions

Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 17 2014, 04:17 AM   #196
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

It certainly doesn't hurt to have the diversity of productions.

Just for fun I revisited some of Starship Exeter this afternoon and was reminded of how it largely clicks for me. It has heart and a good feel to it. I hope we get to see the last instalment soon.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 04:42 AM   #197
Campe98
Commodore
 
Campe98's Avatar
 
Location: Tennessee
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

The last part is still coming? It's been a better part of a decade.
__________________
"Living is easy with eyes closed."
John Lennon, Strawberry Fields Forever
Campe98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 04:54 AM   #198
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Campe98 wrote: View Post
The last part is still coming? It's been a better part of a decade.
That's my understanding.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 05:11 AM   #199
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Campe98 wrote: View Post
The last part is still coming? It's been a better part of a decade.
That's my understanding.
__________________
* * *
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”
― Winston S. Churchill
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 05:12 AM   #200
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Maurice wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Campe98 wrote: View Post
The last part is still coming? It's been a better part of a decade.
That's my understanding.
That puts somewhere around the beginning of April.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 09:48 AM   #201
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
That's my understanding.
That puts somewhere around the beginning of April.
Counting down to 12:00 noon EST on April 1st. Well, actually 1:00 p.m. EDT; will will have switched to Daylight Saving Time by then.
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 11:23 AM   #202
wtriker1701
Lieutenant Commander
 
wtriker1701's Avatar
 
Location: Platjenwerbe, Germany
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Maurice is a wandering teaser...
A good sign, it won't be just an April's Fool.
Thumbs pressed - as delays can happen, if we look over at P2...
wtriker1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 04:21 PM   #203
MikeH92467
Vice Admiral
 
MikeH92467's Avatar
 
Location: Boise, ID
View MikeH92467's Twitter Profile
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Maurice doesn't strike me as given to taking unnecessary risks. I suspect the work is either finished, or close enough that he can confidently put out a firm date.
MikeH92467 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 10:19 PM   #204
Noname Given
Vice Admiral
 
Location: None Given
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

DCR wrote: View Post
Also, to add one more good point. Kirk seemed more like Kirk in this episode, the first one felt more like a TNG script, with Kirk being a little too much like Picard. This was more a TOS story.
^^^
Agreed here. That was my big complaint with their previous episode in that it came across like they were trying to do TNG in the TOS era; and Kirk in that episode acted more like Picard.

In "Lolani" 'Kirk' was (well, TOS Season 3 which is fine as they are continuing from where Season 3 left off) 'Kirk' again; and that was nice to see. I hope they continue writing the character more in that vein.

My couple of nitpicks:

1) The fact that assaulted or not (I didn't get the impression the Tellerites were trying to kill her), they do pretty much have the crew of the 1701 (Kirk included) pretty much glossing over the fact she killed 4 people (good the Admiral Erin Gray mentioned it); so yeah, IMO her own 'moral' position wasn't all that cut and dry.

2) Convenient the Orion slave trader ship was a one man vessel (just saying that you would think he'd have a larger ship being a galactic slave trader, etc.)

Overall though, I thought the technical aspects (sets, costumes, etc.) were outstanding; the writing and acting very solid. I enjoyed the episode; and felt that it was definitely rooted in the TOS, and NOT the TNG era this time out.
Noname Given is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 11:14 PM   #205
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

There were grey areas in this story that weren't explored even with a line or two.

- Assuming the Tellarites were Federation citizens weren't they committing some violation by transporting and one of them "owning" an Orion slave?

- Assuming the Tellarites were Federation citizens and Lolani is suspected of at least having a hand in their deaths then why wouldn't the Federation (as represented by Starfleet) not be interested in thoroughly investigating that matter? Did Lolani act completely in self-defence? And how are the families of the dead Tellarites served by not having a full inquiry?

- And how are they going to explain the destruction of the Orion slaver ship? Was Lolani somehow responsible? Dis she have help and/or someone else was responsible? Did Zaminhon suicide just to keep Lolani from being free?
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2014, 11:35 PM   #206
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

As I mentioned above, were they Federation citizens Kirk would have had a leg to stand on.

Was it stated it was a one-man ship?
__________________
* * *
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”
― Winston S. Churchill
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2014, 12:05 AM   #207
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Maurice wrote: View Post
As I mentioned above, were they Federation citizens Kirk would have had a leg to stand on.
I don't recall there being any reference within the episode that the Tellarites weren't Federation citizens. A simple line to that effect would have cleared up a lot of confusion. Because otherwise we know the Tellarites are members of the Federation.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2014, 12:11 AM   #208
M
Vice Admiral
 
M's Avatar
 
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Noname Given wrote: View Post
1) The fact that assaulted or not (I didn't get the impression the Tellerites were trying to kill her), they do pretty much have the crew of the 1701 (Kirk included) pretty much glossing over the fact she killed 4 people (good the Admiral Erin Gray mentioned it); so yeah, IMO her own 'moral' position wasn't all that cut and dry.
Interesting. For the whole first part of the episode I kept thinking, how can it possibly be murder when she was being kept as a slave against her will? I mean, what kind of attitude to morality is it where you can't defend against your tormentors, even if lethal force must be used? The story spends a great deal with the question whether Lolani is a murderer or not. But how can she be a murderer when all she did was fighting for her right to live a free life (at to not be abused sexually, no less)?
__________________
Bashir: »Out of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?«
Garak: »My dear doctor, they're all true.«
Bashir: »Even the lies?«
Garak: »Especially the lies.«
M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2014, 12:32 AM   #209
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

A really solid second outing and kudos to Mckenna, she more than held her own as a lead in a role that was also appropriate to the plot. She has great chemistry with Kirk and Michelle has great comic and dramatic timing. I thought that Vic was really chanelling Shatner in more than a few scenes.

I loved the enchanting moral ambiguity of Lolani. She was spell-bindingly portrayed. The principle oddity for me though was that once they had clear evidence that Lolani was returning to physical abuse (quite apart from the fact that she was born free and later enslaved against her will), surely she would have strong grounds for claiming asylum? At the very least it would have delayed her departure while a hearing was conducted. I think they needed something more compelling, like a specific crisis, to discourage Starfleet from doing what was clearly the right thing.

Loving Erin too. She looks fabulous and still has that air of command we all remember. ;P
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2014, 12:37 AM   #210
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

M wrote: View Post
Noname Given wrote: View Post
1) The fact that assaulted or not (I didn't get the impression the Tellerites were trying to kill her), they do pretty much have the crew of the 1701 (Kirk included) pretty much glossing over the fact she killed 4 people (good the Admiral Erin Gray mentioned it); so yeah, IMO her own 'moral' position wasn't all that cut and dry.
Interesting. For the whole first part of the episode I kept thinking, how can it possibly be murder when she was being kept as a slave against her will? I mean, what kind of attitude to morality is it where you can't defend against your tormentors, even if lethal force must be used? The story spends a great deal with the question whether Lolani is a murderer or not. But how can she be a murderer when all she did was fighting for her right to live a free life (at to not be abused sexually, no less)?
There is a question as to whether Spock's mind meld could be accepted as evidence of self-defence. One can make a case for her killing the first two Tellarites to prevent what she believed to be attempted rape. But from what we saw her "owner" was injured and incapacitated yet she killed him anyway. So it could be argued that at that immediate moment he was no threat to her.

So as I said before there are questions hanging here unanswered.

- Are they in Federation space? We don't know.
- Were these particular Tellarites not Federation citizens, having renounced their citizenship? We don't know.
- We're assuming it's illegal for Federation citizens to own and transport another intelligent being, which goes to the above point.
- How are the families of the dead Tellarites (assuming they are Federation citizens) served by surrendering the alleged perpetrator without a full inquiry?

A couple lines of dialogue could have cleared all these questions.

I applaud the story they want to tell in this episode---I really do---and I quite like most of what is done in it. But by covering all or as many of the loose threads as possible it would paint a different picture. As it stands our heroic Captain looks stumped and totally helpless because he's not given any possible loophole and for viewers that can be dramatically frustrating. On this point I've read quite a few opinions of fans who are bummed out because they're so used to Kirk figuring his way out of such boxes. To really justify a "no win" scenario the writers should have covered all the bases so the audience is clued in to why things unfold as they do.

A couple of extra lines from Commodore Gray would have cleared everything up. As is we're left guessing and Kirk looks looks stumped and Starfleet and the Federation look really bad.

We might speculate that in attempting to retrieve Lolani then Kirk was prepared to hold his superiors' feet to the fire. He was going to make a principled stand and say, "This is wrong. We cannot go into Orion and dictate how they run their planet, but we don't surrender helpless individuals into slavery and brutality."

Even if Kirk had made that assertion to Commodore Gray and managed to at least make her look somewhat shamed that would have been a redeeming moment for Kirk and the audience. The point is if you're going to make Starfleet and the Federation (which are supposed to be positive and optimistic agencies) look like shit in a story then you should at least justify it.


Star Trek had its share of downbeat or bittersweet endings and they can work quite well as long as we aren't left with unanswered questions.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?

Last edited by Warped9; February 18 2014 at 12:57 AM.
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.