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Old February 24 2014, 08:07 PM   #271
DonIago
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
@DonIago: You forgot Ishan Anjar. Although this may have been intentional, amirite?
Ishan Anjar is dead to me!
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Old February 24 2014, 09:13 PM   #272
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
"So, Lieutenant Uhura, you're black and it's the 1960s, so I guess we have to deal with that and call attention to it, even if that runs of the risk of making it seem that race is still an issue in the future."
Well, it was made an issue of, in "The Savage Curtain", and while bordering on the ham-fisted, I think that they pulled it off and managed to make racism seem anachronistic. Explicitly using a construct of the past semi-deftly dodged the boldfaced issue.
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Old February 24 2014, 09:24 PM   #273
Greg Cox
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
"So, Lieutenant Uhura, you're black and it's the 1960s, so I guess we have to deal with that and call attention to it, even if that runs of the risk of making it seem that race is still an issue in the future."
Well, it was made an issue of, in "The Savage Curtain", and while bordering on the ham-fisted, I think that they pulled it off and managed to make racism seem anachronistic. Explicitly using a construct of the past semi-deftly dodged the boldfaced issue.
True, but that was well into the third season and Uhura's presence had long been taken for granted at that point. And it made sense to address the issue in the context of Abraham Lincoln!
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Old February 24 2014, 09:28 PM   #274
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
True, but that was well into the third season and Uhura's presence had long been taken for granted at that point.
Good point.

And it made sense to address the issue in the context of Abraham Lincoln!
Yes.
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Old February 24 2014, 09:39 PM   #275
Greg Cox
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

If Lieutenant O'Roarke falls through a time warp and ends up at the Stonewall Riots, then you can have him being gay an issue.

But not before we get to know him as just another crew member first, who just happens to be gay.
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Old February 25 2014, 12:31 AM   #276
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

Regardless of the Trek Universe, the public's reaction needs to be taken in consideration as to the success or failure of such a film. Too much of a risk to take I would think with hundreds of millions at stake. I for one would have a very huge problem with it but that is just my opinion, everyone has one.
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Old February 25 2014, 12:43 AM   #277
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

geneo wrote: View Post
Regardless of the Trek Universe, the public's reaction needs to be taken in consideration as to the success or failure of such a film. Too much of a risk to take I would think with hundreds of millions at stake. I for one would have a very huge problem with it but that is just my opinion, everyone has one.
I don't see it as a risk at all. The sexuality of fictional characters doesn't seem to have any impact on the success or failure of a film.

Given your history in topics such as this, I suggest you tread carefully in this thread.
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Old February 25 2014, 12:44 AM   #278
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

And one does not compromise the principles of the franchise because it makes some of the audience most of which doesn't like Trek anyway a little uncomfortable.
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Old February 25 2014, 12:49 AM   #279
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
A quad-sexual Andorian would also be attracted to it's own gender, making a 5-some, which would just be terribly awkward for the 5th Andorian...
I see what you're say, except if a Andorian were a quad-sexual then that would be the equivalent of a Human bi-sexual, where the Andorian was attracted to the 3 opposite (opposing?) genders, plus was attracted to members of their own gender.

They're gay.

And if a Andorian were attracted solely to those of their own gender that would make them a homosexual.

Also gay

Plus if a Andorian were attracted to one or two of the other genders, but not all three ... we're going to need some new words here.

geneo wrote: View Post
Too much of a risk to take I would think with hundreds of millions at stake
While gay main characters are not exactly ubiquitous, we common enough in multiple series and movie for it really to be part of the standard mix of just about any new show.

Gays, just part of the normal crowd like the uptight Brit, the funny Mexican and the slutty Korean girl.


Last edited by T'Girl; February 25 2014 at 01:32 AM.
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Old February 25 2014, 01:14 AM   #280
Greg Cox
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

geneo wrote: View Post
Regardless of the Trek Universe, the public's reaction needs to be taken in consideration as to the success or failure of such a film. Too much of a risk to take I would think with hundreds of millions at stake. I for one would have a very huge problem with it but that is just my opinion, everyone has one.
Given that we live in an era in which every other sitcom has a gay character or two, and only the usual suspects ever object, I can't see this being much of a risk nowadays . . . and it's becoming even less so at an accelerating rate. Demographically, the vast majority of young people couldn't care less . . . and that's where the real box office is.

And Star Trek, properly, should be out ahead of the curve, not dragging behind.
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Old February 25 2014, 01:27 AM   #281
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

Andorian sexuality is starting to give me a headache.
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Old February 25 2014, 02:23 AM   #282
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
geneo wrote: View Post
Regardless of the Trek Universe, the public's reaction needs to be taken in consideration as to the success or failure of such a film. Too much of a risk to take I would think with hundreds of millions at stake. I for one would have a very huge problem with it but that is just my opinion, everyone has one.
Given that we live in an era in which every other sitcom has a gay character or two, and only the usual suspects ever object, I can't see this being much of a risk nowadays . . . and it's becoming even less so at an accelerating rate. Demographically, the vast majority of young people couldn't care less . . . and that's where the real box office is.

And Star Trek, properly, should be out ahead of the curve, not dragging behind.
Agreed.

The only risk is doing it badly, which is the same risk as every other part of every film.



Should they not have made To Kill a Mockingbird because it was "too much of a risk"?
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Old February 25 2014, 02:55 AM   #283
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

As long as Paramount thinks Star Trek needs to be a blockbuster action movie franchise, there won't be any risks. Star Trek should be a TV show or smaller movies that can tell better stories.
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Old February 25 2014, 03:08 AM   #284
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

T'Girl wrote: View Post
PhoenixClass wrote: View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is it your position that you assume that homosexuals are either oppressed or simply do not exist in the Star Trek universe because we have never seen such a character?
My sole position on the absence? No, not at all, but I have considered it as one possibility. While we don't of course find out the sexual orientation of every visible crewmember on the show, when we are shown a character's orientation, it's hetero. All marriages are hetero. Given the number of characters where this aspect is made clear, some of them would have been gay, but none are.

One possibility (not the only one) is that gays are in fact missing for some reason from the population that we're seeing. In any given random group above a certain size, statistically there will be gays in the group. If Starfleet admissions policy is to exclude gays that would be one explanation.

Out-universe we all know the reason, but in-universe the reason is harder to find.

OK but I still don't understand what your conclusion is.

In other words, when you visit the world of Star Trek in your imagination, what explanation do you, for yourself, use?
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Old February 25 2014, 10:43 AM   #285
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Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

T'Girl wrote: View Post
... where the Andorian was attracted to the 3 opposite (opposing?) genders, plus was attracted to members of their own gender.

They're gay.
what?

You say yourself it's the equivalent of a human bisexual, so right there that's not 'gay.' It's bisexual.

They're not the same thing. It's bisexual erasure to say they are, and I would have thought a transgender person was against that. Bisexual is not the same as gay, and you even say that yourself, so what the hell are you talking about?

.
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