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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old February 10 2014, 07:30 AM   #76
Davros
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

gturner wrote: View Post
But do note that Ham is a good speaker (and with a nice sounding accent). The people at his position are generally not going to be walk-overs in a debate, because such debates are pretty much all they do.
Since he is arguing against evolution he might as well be arguing for a flat earth or a geocentric universe. I have a hard time seeing how could anybody not just walk over him and his so called arguments.
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Old February 10 2014, 07:50 AM   #77
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

Because they design their arguments specifically to sound good in such a limited debate setting, especially if their opponent is there to actually debate honestly. All they need is one line that makes you go "uh, um, well I'm not up to date on the specifics of that, but I would think that. . ." and suddenly science doesn't have all the answers. The person debating the merits of science represents "science" as a whole in the opposition's mind, not only their limited knowledge of it. So they design their arguments to be a series of "gotchas." which can lead even the best of debaters to attack the question instead of their nonsensical arguments, which they take as science not being able to stand against the mighty weight of the bible. And the audience cheers for the mighty savior, hallelujah.
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Old February 10 2014, 08:42 AM   #78
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

Davros wrote: View Post
gturner wrote: View Post
But do note that Ham is a good speaker (and with a nice sounding accent). The people at his position are generally not going to be walk-overs in a debate, because such debates are pretty much all they do.
Since he is arguing against evolution he might as well be arguing for a flat earth or a geocentric universe. I have a hard time seeing how could anybody not just walk over him and his so called arguments.
Exactly. See above. I suspect that Ham is in the position he is just because of his accent, which to Kentuckians would sound refined and posh and Oxford educated, even though he could drive a tow truck for a living. Accents are weird that way.
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Old February 10 2014, 10:25 AM   #79
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Because they design their arguments specifically to sound good in such a limited debate setting, especially if their opponent is there to actually debate honestly. All they need is one line that makes you go "uh, um, well I'm not up to date on the specifics of that, but I would think that. . ." and suddenly science doesn't have all the answers. The person debating the merits of science represents "science" as a whole in the opposition's mind, not only their limited knowledge of it. So they design their arguments to be a series of "gotchas." which can lead even the best of debaters to attack the question instead of their nonsensical arguments, which they take as science not being able to stand against the mighty weight of the bible. And the audience cheers for the mighty savior, hallelujah.
In short, Creationism is about sounding scientific, without having to do all that... science... stuff. You just pick up a Bible, say "God did it" and *boom*, instant expert.
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Old February 10 2014, 01:57 PM   #80
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

gturner wrote: View Post
Davros wrote: View Post
gturner wrote: View Post
But do note that Ham is a good speaker (and with a nice sounding accent). The people at his position are generally not going to be walk-overs in a debate, because such debates are pretty much all they do.
Since he is arguing against evolution he might as well be arguing for a flat earth or a geocentric universe. I have a hard time seeing how could anybody not just walk over him and his so called arguments.
Exactly. See above. I suspect that Ham is in the position he is just because of his accent, which to Kentuckians would sound refined and posh and Oxford educated, even though he could drive a tow truck for a living. Accents are weird that way.
Any background in basic science will make the content of what he says absurd, no matter what his accent is.
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Old February 10 2014, 08:01 PM   #81
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Because they design their arguments specifically to sound good in such a limited debate setting,.
And science doesn't have all the answer and is constantly in flux (Religion also but that's a dirty little secret.)

One of the problems with science based evolution is that people get unhinged when you tell them that life is based on random events.
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Old February 10 2014, 08:38 PM   #82
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

J. Allen wrote: View Post
In short, Creationism is about sounding scientific, without having to do all that... science... stuff. You just pick up a Bible, say "God did it" and *boom*, instant expert.
Yeah but you have to come up crazy with $#!^& to explain it.
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Old February 10 2014, 09:59 PM   #83
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Because they design their arguments specifically to sound good in such a limited debate setting, especially if their opponent is there to actually debate honestly. All they need is one line that makes you go "uh, um, well I'm not up to date on the specifics of that, but I would think that. . ." and suddenly science doesn't have all the answers. The person debating the merits of science represents "science" as a whole in the opposition's mind, not only their limited knowledge of it. So they design their arguments to be a series of "gotchas." which can lead even the best of debaters to attack the question instead of their nonsensical arguments, which they take as science not being able to stand against the mighty weight of the bible. And the audience cheers for the mighty savior, hallelujah.
A great example of that is how he attempts to validate the flood story. Ham's argument about how we have multiple species in a 4,000 year old flood story is to summarize that using dogs as an example different types of dog species all came from the original same line. Similarly, cats et al.
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Old February 10 2014, 10:37 PM   #84
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

Yminale wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
In short, Creationism is about sounding scientific, without having to do all that... science... stuff. You just pick up a Bible, say "God did it" and *boom*, instant expert.
Yeah but you have to come up crazy with $#!^& to explain it.
Not really. When your god is all powerful, all capable, and all knowing, you don't have to try very hard.
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Old February 10 2014, 10:48 PM   #85
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

It's too bad God doesn't show up for a Q&A session. It would go just like this:

Host: And here's God Almighty to answer your questions. Yes, you, down in front.
Asker: Hey, God. Long-time fan. Is it true that You can make a burrito so spicy even You can't eat it?
God: (angry) THERE WILL BE NO MORE QUESTIONS!
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Old February 10 2014, 11:11 PM   #86
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
It's too bad God doesn't show up for a Q&A session. It would go just like this:

Host: And here's God Almighty to answer your questions. Yes, you, down in front.
Asker: Hey, God. Long-time fan. Is it true that You can make a burrito so spicy even You can't eat it?
God: (angry) THERE WILL BE NO MORE QUESTIONS!
For some reason, the voice of God, in my head, sounds like Lrr, from the planet Omicron Persei 8.
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Old February 10 2014, 11:45 PM   #87
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
It's too bad God doesn't show up for a Q&A session. It would go just like this:

Host: And here's God Almighty to answer your questions. Yes, you, down in front.
Asker: Hey, God. Long-time fan. Is it true that You can make a burrito so spicy even You can't eat it?
God: (angry) THERE WILL BE NO MORE QUESTIONS!
For some reason, the voice of God, in my head, sounds like Lrr, from the planet Omicron Persei 8.
That is exactly what I was going for.
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Old February 11 2014, 12:00 AM   #88
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

Venardhi wrote: View Post
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I'm an evolution skeptic as well, because I don't buy the idea that it's solely based on random mutation and natural selection, which was what I was taught back then in school. It think that (in addition to random mutation) an organism changes bits of its genetic makeup depending on the environment it lives in/adapts to. And over generations (if the offsprings are living under the same environmental conditions), these changes to the genetic code get more and more refined. That's the only way I can see things happen the way they did.
In any case, perhaps you should read up on Lamarckian Evolution which was one of the predecessors of Darwin's theory, and all the evidence that pushed us away from it.
Yeah, that's the first thing that I thought, too.
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Old February 11 2014, 12:11 AM   #89
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

Well, I guess it's time for this again:



I think it's unjustifiably presumptuous of the creationists to presume that God's on their side in this argument. If God showed up at a Q&A, I think he'd rip them to shreds with all the science he'd whip out on them.
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Old February 11 2014, 12:15 AM   #90
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Re: Bill Nye to debate Creationist tonight at 7 - 2.4 on CNN

If we're on to favorite God comics...

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