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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old February 3 2014, 09:29 PM   #1
Xerxes1979
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Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

Was Kirk's surrender the expected course of action? Unshielded torpedo hits have a tendency to mess a ship up pretty bad.

Dying in combat while honorable may not have served his larger goal of personally overseeing the peace process fully dissolve.

Were they supposed to be low yield torpedoes that allowed the ship to recover if combat with the Enterprise followed?
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Old February 3 2014, 10:36 PM   #2
drt
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

I would think that Kirk surrendering was probably accounted for in the planning, but likely one of the lower probability outcomes.

With regard to torpedo yield, in the original series photon torpedoes were regarded to be considerably more powereful, and firing one at a target that close was thought to be dangerous for even the firing ship (based on "Obsesion"), but from TWOK onwards, they really weren't any more effective than phasers (which were also more powerful in the original series, as shown in "Day of the Dove"), so it's hard to say if there really was any dialed down yield.

I'd argue that it would have served Chang's interests just as well to destroy Kronos One outright, but that wouldn't have been much of a movie I guess.
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Old February 4 2014, 06:02 AM   #3
Xerxes1979
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

On second thought the plan was to probably to provoke the Enterprise and fight until crippled.

It would be very un-Federation like to destroy an enemy target unless absolutely necessary. Also as a space speed queen for many decades the E was probably capable of disengaging from the fight.
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Old February 4 2014, 06:13 AM   #4
Sran
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

Xerxes1979 wrote: View Post
Was Kirk's surrender the expected course of action? Unshielded torpedo hits have a tendency to mess a ship up pretty bad.

Dying in combat while honorable may not have served his larger goal of personally overseeing the peace process fully dissolve.

Were they supposed to be low yield torpedoes that allowed the ship to recover if combat with the Enterprise followed?
I don't think Chang was so concerned with his own survival so much as he was preserving the enmity between the Federation and the Klingon Empire.

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Old February 4 2014, 06:24 AM   #5
-Brett-
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

The prototype Bird of Prey was around as well. The plan could have called for it to pick up the slack.
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Old February 4 2014, 12:19 PM   #6
anh165
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

BoP fires Kronos One knowing where to strike it to disable the gravity field (or perhaps someone inside the ship manually did that)

The Enterprise had her shields down, and since we see Kronos One being attacked, she can raise her shields immediately giving her the upper hand on the Enterprise.

Kirk still wondering WTF is going on whilst he is under strict orders to escort the Klingons as part of the peace mission would be in no frame of mind to put up a fight.
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Old February 6 2014, 03:53 AM   #7
austen_pierce
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

Where exactly IS Chang during this attack? I always assumed he beamed aboard the BOP from the Enterprise transporter room after dinner, justified IMO by his speaking into the communicator moments before. He then beams back aboard Kronos One after the attack.

Again, IMO, Chang knew Kirk was capable of defending Enterprise, and had written off Kronos One. His original plan was to eat popcorn on the bridge of the invisible BOP, and watch as Kirk blew KO to bits. Chang then flies off and enjoys ongoing hostilities between the Klingons and the Fed.
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Old February 6 2014, 03:53 AM   #8
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

and great thread!
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Old February 6 2014, 08:27 PM   #9
TLemun
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

Chang was on Kronos One. We see him threaten to blow the Enterprise out of the stars directly after the attack. The Chancellor would have noticed if Chang was suddenly missing anyway.

I think the plan was for Kronos One to destroy Enterprise and get a war started right then and there. Maybe K1 would have gone down as well but it would have been a glorious battle worthy of song.
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Old February 6 2014, 08:52 PM   #10
Armored Saint
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

TLemun wrote: View Post
Chang was on Kronos One. We see him threaten to blow the Enterprise out of the stars directly after the attack. The Chancellor would have noticed if Chang was suddenly missing anyway.
Gorkon said "Find Chang", so perhaps he knew he was not necessarily on Kronos One. He surely expected the presence of at least one cloaked ship as escort, but he didn't expect this cloaked ship would attack his own.

But of course, there's also the possibility that Chang was on Kronos One, but hidden in a good place to avoid to be injuried by the torpedoes or the two killers.

TLemun wrote: View Post
I think the plan was for Kronos One to destroy Enterprise and get a war started right then and there. Maybe K1 would have gone down as well but it would have been a glorious battle worthy of song.
Yeah, Kirk avoided the war by surrendering. If Kirk had instead chosen the confrontation, Chang would have achieved his goal and been ready to win or die in a glorious battle.
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Old February 6 2014, 09:41 PM   #11
TLemun
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

Armored Saint wrote: View Post
Gorkon said "Find Chang", so perhaps he knew he was not necessarily on Kronos One. He surely expected the presence of at least one cloaked ship as escort, but he didn't expect this cloaked ship would attack his own.
Even with a known cloaked escort it just seems like a bad idea for Chang to be beaming back and forth. You're just asking for the Enterprise sensors to pick up on what you're doing.

Then again, Chang wasn't exactly forward thinking, so who knows.
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Old February 6 2014, 11:22 PM   #12
Cyke101
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

I thought it was important and part of the plan that a few of the Chancellor's staff would become unwitting pawns, in that they weren't part of the conspiracy but would have valid testimony for the show trial and thus further heat up the politics of the war, to fan the flames as it were.
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Old February 7 2014, 12:46 PM   #13
Runetouch
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

I presume that Chang expected that Kirk would surrender. Even if he didn't, and the Enterprise destroyed his ship, peace between Starfleet and Klingons would not have been achieved and they would have remained enemies and so, even if he died, his objective would have been accomplished.
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Old February 7 2014, 06:49 PM   #14
blueziggy
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

personally, i think chang was a little more devious. he probably was on the bird of prey. that transmission could easily be faked. the enterprise not knowing of the bop would only attack kronos one. more than likey kronos one would be destroyed, thus eliminating a vast majority of the government... except the chief of staff chang. could give him control of the empire. explaining the fact that he is there when kirk and mccoy beam over is simple, he beamed back to kronos one before they did.
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Old February 7 2014, 08:13 PM   #15
TLemun
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Re: Did Chang expect the Kronos One to survive in combat?

The thing is there is no reason for him to be on the BOP. The BOP is only there to take out K1's gravitational field for the assassins. At which point the loyal Klingons on K1 will attack the Enterprise. Chang doesn't need to beam over to the BOP to give the order to fire and then beam back.

More than likely, Chang is on the K1 bridge. If anything goes wrong (like Kirk surrendering) he's exactly where he is supposed to be and he can't be linked to the conspiracy.
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