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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old February 6 2014, 01:49 AM   #31
T'Girl
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Re: Cause and Effect (??)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
We don't know enough about how the thrusters or really how anything on the ship works.
According to the ST: TNG Technical Manual, each of the Enterprise D's malnuvering thrusters generates about 510 metric tonnes of thrust.

Presumably the thrusters are powered by the same fusion reactors the impulse engines are and aren't chemical rockets.
They employ a fusion reaction and emit plasma gas. In other words they eject material to generate thrust, just like a chemical rocket.

And the facts of the entire series is that the ship can at it's best can move 2000 times the speed of light and converting matter to pure energy is done without much thought.
And by venting the main shuttle bay the Enterprise moved.

Objects in space still have mass and it still takes mass/energy to move that mass and to do it you need an equal or greater force.
Incidentally the maneuvering thrusters on the old space shuttle produced 870 pounds of thrust, that about a 1 to 260 thrust to weight/mass ratio.

And even if you don't need a 1-1 ratio I'm pretty sure a 1-750 ratio is giving them too much.
It's also likely the thrusters are also aided by any mass-reducing technomagic on the ship.
So the thrust from the depressurizing shuttle bay could have been pushing against a much lower mass ... right?

Saying "you don't need one-to-one" thrust to move something is like saying that if the ISS stops moving an astronaut can just get out and push. And not really "push" but just get out and give the ISS a single, quick, instant tap with the slightest of effort and the ISS will go flying away from him.
Let's try this, let's say that you want to push a stalled car. All by yourself. And the car weighs 4,000 pound. You're on a level road. Do you honestly think that you would have to push that car with 4,000 pounds of force in order to get it to move?

Really?

Realistically (unless you a strapping fellow) you going to be pushing with less than hundred pound of force, but you're still going to get the car moving in a short period of time.


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Old February 6 2014, 02:53 AM   #32
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Re: Cause and Effect (??)

I get what you're saying, I just stiil find it very, very hard to believe that single, instant, burst of air from the shuttlebay was enough to make the Enterprise fly out of the way so quickly and effectively.
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Old February 7 2014, 06:04 AM   #33
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Re: Cause and Effect (??)

Yeah, this is one of my favorite episodes despite all of the glaring problems.

In order for the Bozeman to be caught in this loop, it needed to collide with the Enterprise D. So... it was in this just as long as the Enterprise. The initial impact is what caused the loop to happen. The distortion caused the Bozeman to jump forward in time, so they weren't stuck in a loop for decades.

No way to leave a pod behind. As soon as the loop restarts, the pod is back in the bay.

I think you're absolutely right Trekker4747, that the air from the shuttle bay wouldn't have been enough to push the Enterprise out of the way.

The thing that always bugged me about this episode is that once the Bozeman is spotted, there is quite a bit of time wasted debating about what to do. In my version, Data would have sent a message to himself, some number or symbol that would have an association with the tractor beam [at least in Data's neural net]. The idea being that he use the tractor beam ASAP. Data would have known it to be right move and not wasted time considering Riker's suggestion. Get that tractor beam in action about 15 seconds or more ahead of when they actually used it in the failed loops and it would have been enough for the Enterprise to clear out of the way of the Bozeman.
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Old February 16 2014, 03:29 AM   #34
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Re: Cause and Effect (??)

If you're going to question the ending you might as well also question why nobody got the idea to randomize their flight path using cosmic radiation that would be different on every loop, guaranteeing that in the next few loops they wouldn't encounter the problem.
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Old February 16 2014, 06:23 AM   #35
T'Girl
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Re: Cause and Effect (??)

Gary7 wrote: View Post
The idea being that he use the tractor beam ASAP.
Or vent the flight deck sooner to give them room to spare.

It occurred to me that solely using the tractor beam wouldn't have solved all of the Enterprise's problems, in addition to the collision (the bigger problem), the Enterprise was suffering power problems too, but soon after they moved that problem went away. I think it was simply moving from that one spot in space (directly inline with the throat of the space whatsit) that solve the power problem, they didn't have to change position by very much, but they did need to move.

The tractor beam wouldn't have accomplished that.

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