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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 13 2014, 12:34 AM   #91
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Star Trek 3: Classic Trek or original story?

I have to be 'that guy.'

-1 (or can it be -3)

Granted Paramount is looking at marketing, but all studios do that. That 's the reason "Twilight" films, "Transformers" sequels, and "Resident Evil" pictures are still being produced. (In the case of the "Twilight" films, were produced).

I look at the tentative "Star Trek 3" like any movie I would have to pay for with money or my time: It should give me something different, or a real clever turn on something we've already seen.

The marketing for the first film - as we all know - was 'the slate has been wiped clean' so I would expect to not only be entertained, but 'wowed' with fresh stories and characters with depth.
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Old June 13 2014, 04:50 AM   #92
johnjm22
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Re: Star Trek 3: Classic Trek or original story?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
johnjm22 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
So you're bashing Orci for delivering the scripts that Paramount wants? Seems to me if someone hires you to do a job and gives you a checklist of things they want done, you do it. Or you won't be working for very long.
By Orci's own admission, he has freedom when writing the ST scripts. Paramount gives him market statistics for his consideration.
Most likely, he has to pay attention to said statistics somewhat when writing so that the script doesn't become a fan service wank, but appeals to everybody else beyond the fandom of Star Trek that also goes to the movie theater to see these movies.
And yet despite that, STID was crammed with fan service wanks (which was part of the problem with it IMO).

Orci and Paramount are afraid to produce an original script. They think an ST film without a bunch of rehashes and fanboy service will lose the established Trek fanbase.
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Old June 13 2014, 05:26 AM   #93
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Star Trek 3: Classic Trek or original story?

johnjm22 wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
johnjm22 wrote: View Post

By Orci's own admission, he has freedom when writing the ST scripts. Paramount gives him market statistics for his consideration.
Most likely, he has to pay attention to said statistics somewhat when writing so that the script doesn't become a fan service wank, but appeals to everybody else beyond the fandom of Star Trek that also goes to the movie theater to see these movies.
And yet despite that, STID was crammed with fan service wanks (which was part of the problem with it IMO).

Orci and Paramount are afraid to produce an original script. They think an ST film without a bunch of rehashes and fanboy service will lose the established Trek fanbase.
Okay, I'll have to see the movie again, but which were the fan wanks that they did have in the movie, just as a refresher?
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Old June 13 2014, 05:56 AM   #94
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Star Trek 3: Classic Trek or original story?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
johnjm22 wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post

Most likely, he has to pay attention to said statistics somewhat when writing so that the script doesn't become a fan service wank, but appeals to everybody else beyond the fandom of Star Trek that also goes to the movie theater to see these movies.
And yet despite that, STID was crammed with fan service wanks (which was part of the problem with it IMO).

Orci and Paramount are afraid to produce an original script. They think an ST film without a bunch of rehashes and fanboy service will lose the established Trek fanbase.
Okay, I'll have to see the movie again, but which were the fan wanks that they did have in the movie, just as a refresher?
Off the top of my head:

*Klingons. They served no real purpose in the plot, and could have been jettisoned.

*The man who would be Khan. He could have remained John Harrison, and possibly would have made an even bigger impact as an original character.

*Carol Marcus. If she does play a bigger part in the next film, her insertion in this film could serve as an introduction. Otherwise, she was just put in STID for fanservice....in more ways than one...

*Spock saying, "Khaaaaaan!" Even casual fans of Trek (or those with casual familiarity with Trek films) know of that particular yell. Here, it comes off gimmicky and awkward...and a bit unoriginal rather than clever.

*Kirk sacrificing himself in place of Spock from the previous Star Trek II.

*A tribble showing up as a deus ex machina...or 'tribble ex machina.'
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Old June 13 2014, 04:13 PM   #95
johnjm22
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Re: Star Trek 3: Classic Trek or original story?

In addition to those, Leonard Nimoy was in the movie as old Spock which made no sense at all in the context of the story.

The entire last 3rd of the movie was like watching a bizarre mashup of Star Trek internet memes or something.

To be fair, I actually did enjoy some of the subtle references to ST past that were sprinkled though out the film.
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Old June 13 2014, 05:59 PM   #96
Set Harth
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Re: Star Trek 3: Classic Trek or original story?

johnjm22 wrote: View Post
In addition to those, Leonard Nimoy was in the movie as old Spock which made no sense at all in the context of the story.
^ That statement makes no sense at all.
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Old June 17 2014, 03:05 AM   #97
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Star Trek 3: Classic Trek or original story?

^^

I think I understand (and agree) with johnjm22.

Basically, classic Spock's story was 'done' in the previous film and his insertion in said 2009 film was integral to the story. However, with the 2013 film, the cameo felt forced, and classic Spock shouldn't have known off the bat who 'Khan' was in this new universe.

That's not logical.

For all classic Spock knew, 'Khan' could have been 'Kublai Khan' reborn in the Kirk-era.

(For me, nuSpock, following his classic version's thoroughness from the series, would have done some research and found out about this John Harrison and his - Harrison's - motives were and what makes him tick, his history...i.e. character development).

Now that I think about it, an idea of having John Harrison - similar to what was in "Batman Returns" with the a Ra's al Ghul character - where someone else is the actual 'Khan' would have been interesting. That could have tied into why we saw Ricardo Montalban's character as 'Khan' as well.
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